ibid (whatever that actually means)

I'm sorry. I'm not myself. I have too much personal interest in this right now. I cannot be objective or rational. I am editing out all recent comments I made.

I'm sorry. I'm not myself. I have too much personal interest in this right now. I cannot be objective or rational. I am editing out all recent comments I made.

Sorry, my wife never carried a weapon.. Just because you are in the military does not mean that you are a combatant.. And while your love is not a combatant, like mine, she chose a role in life that could put her in harms way..

I really do hope that things work out for you.. I understand the stress you are under right now..

Thank you.

For reference I think soldiers are brave good people, usually. And their weapons are their job, otherwise whatever skill they have - it's their weapon, and they are ALL defended by actual guns and bombs behind them and on their flanks (Carrying weapons or not, she's part of a defended war machine).

Until I cross the border out of babylon, the only frontline I am on is that of economics and industry - it is a vital front of course.

But people don't appreciate how tough the frontline IN babylon is - all the good people I know have been rounded up as slaves for the ratrace/military-industrial-complex and though my life as a renegade is cushy, the work i do is painful, and the years have made me tired and aged my mind so far... my body is in expertly handled condition, but as a person I feel like i'm 52 not 32. I'm so tired of the exploitation, the materialism, the utter rubbish everywhere. I'm tired of myself. Of spending every day being a mercenary object of economic brutishness and aggression. I'm sick of never spending any time saying "i don't care if i have money or not, if i have a future or not".

The logic behind my statement (differentiating the risk to soldiers from the risk to civilians) is this: no soldier has a right to not expect death. As hannibal says in the first episode of the a-team: you have to accept death - only then can you really face your enemy. Death is always a possibility if you are a soldier.

I respect good soldiers.

Just my two barrels of oil....

Let us demonstrate how peace works:

you and me should shake hands and be friends. Hamas and Israel need to BOTH try this. But let's just do it ourselves and end this thread, before it becomes an echo of war, like 200+ entire forums on politics I've seen (and "spammed" with antiwar 'trolling')

http://www.ehow.com/how_2737_shake-hands.html

perhaps one day we can create a web-business co-operation/affiliation together - and we can teach each other that social interaction can rise above politics - you can vote McCain or Thatcher, I can abstain and stand in war protests, but we can still eat lunch, exchange money for goods, live together. Politics are part of the longterm. We cannot expect perfection up front. It takes hard work. The mature attitude is to respect differences and not draw them into everyday life - the war in israel and palestine is a failure to do that, by both sides. Many anti-war factions in both Israel and Palestine are working hard to change that. We should ensure we support them - whether by giving money to children in palestine needing food, or by helping israeli officers defend homes in border towns (both of which i've done, indirectly).

I was never not your friend.. I may think you are nuts some times, but I have lots of crazy friends..

In my "stress" as you accurately call it, I was feeling a lot like no one's friend. Sorry. I'm over it.

...crazy/nuts is just my way. I can't be what I am without it. My profit, my looks and youth (preserved by staying out of the ratrace, which REQUIRES being nuts - since you have to accept you will be excluded, hated and left with nothing, not even food* - which means you are 'mad' if you choose that, and I choose it every day, I reaffirm my choice every day, and love it).

It'd be nice if out there the guns stopped too. We can both hope that both Israel and Hamas stop killing and bombing, and maybe that combined hope will add something to the chances of success? It's worth a shot. Nothing to lose. My work is done here. I must get back to the grind... while I was debating here I did see some good forwards motion on what I lovingly call my "money counter".

Wow. Curiousity begs to know what was deleted.

Just a guy having a hard time ATM..

I'm more curious what his business model is.. I spent the last 5 years actually making the product I sold so I'm no stranger to real business..

to be fair gaza has been turned into a horrible prison with food and energy blocked out, and israel has been really turning the thumb screws

so a few loose cannons shot some rockets - desperate and angry and ill.

that's a small error, to me, compared with a government using blitzkrieg warfare and killing 100s of innocent people in air raids. plus it's clearly going to get worse.

i should leave that fact here on this thread, so that anyone who cites hamas's rockets as a "good reason" for the killing so far of 15 to 20 babies, as well as all the other civilians who have died over the holiday season, realise that it's not really very fair to say that!

of course hamas people should not shoot rockets - EVEN when they are eroded, broken down and under siege, when every baby, every woman in gaza is suffering painfully for months and the world ignores then... EVEN THEN they should not cave in and lower themselves to the level of their enemy, who kills remorselessly.

I hope my statement is less virulent than the tone which led to an escalation of stress by talking about this - but I can't be 100% silent about that - some random nuts threw a few rockets out of sheer desperation. an army blitzkrieging across gaza, mocked with cartoons showing livni as santa dropping bombs on gaza in the shape of the word "Vote Kadima" sums up what really is going on. and why it is TRUE that 'democracy' is a totally farcical word that is abused in israel, europe and the USA and means "tyranny with public relations".

if you are american or british, your government can now throw you in an oubliette any day it wants, and leave you there. go read amnesty's site, it's no lie. you lost your freedom AGES ago!

Originally Posted by witnesstheday

...
so a few loose cannons shot some rockets - desperate and angry and ill.

...
some random nuts threw a few rockets out of sheer desperation
...

Justification. Rationalization. Misstatement. Factually incorrect. This is not a small band of desperate people. This is a group of very well organized and financed people that has shot THOUSANDS of rockets into Israel over the last few years of "Cease Fire", the majority of which have been launched over the last few weeks, many of which have continued to be fired during this most recent military action.

Again, I am not pro-zionist. There is very little that can be said to justify Israels overall treatment of Palestinians, including theft of property, beatings, and now, as they threaten to hold a significant voting right within Isreals Democracy, supression of the vote from those of Palestinian descent.

That said, nobody is going to buy what you are selling if you try and frame up assh*les launching rockets into civilian cities on a daily basis over the last few years as a "few desperate people". If anything, Israel has the moral authority at this point after previously agreeing to a cease fire, under UN presure, only to be continually shelled for another 3 years. It demonstrated that your people have no interest in a peaceful resolution to their complaints. Even if Israel were to meat out an entirely equal response, that is 3000 bombs to be dropped on Gaza, a number not likely to be hit for another week.

When you phrase it in terms of Mexicans launching rockets into Californian or Texan city centers, or Morrocans launching rockets into into spain, I think you'll find the Israeli response is LONG overdue. If they are smart, they won't succumb to pressure by the World/UN, and continue until Gaza is an occupied territory. At least then they should be able to negotiate a peace for that territory that will last. Maybe then the bloodshed and blockades can stop, and the quality of life in Gaza can improve.

There are reports of damage to a children's hospital.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/7806844.stm

Argue in favour of blowing up children's hospitals any way you want.

The First Casualty of Israel's War

By TED HONDERICH
It is said truth is the first casualty of war. It is rather the first casualty of inhumanity. You have to lie, maybe to yourself as well, when your are engaged in inhumanity. You wouldn't have to lie about a war that really was right.
By Zionism I mean the founding and actually necessary defence of the state of Israel in roughly its 1948 boundaries. It was justified by the Holocaust in the past and is justified by the existence of a Jewish homeland now. By neo-Zionism I mean the taking from the suffering Palestinians, the only indigenous people of historic Palestine, at least their autonomy in the last fifth of their homeland.
A decent humanity, the Principle of Humanity, ultimately justifies Zionism. It condemns neo-Zionism absolutely. There aren't two sides to the story of a real rape.
The neo-Zionist government of Israel says that in attacking the democracy of Gaza it is doing no more than engaging in self-defence. It is saving lives of its own citizens from rocket attacks.
That is not its aim. If that were its aim, Israel would achieve it immediately by embracing the solution to the Palestinian problem, in no way complex. It would give up neo-Zionism. It would withdraw, without negotiation, from the remaining homeland of another people.
The preponderant aim of neo-Zionism in Gaza now is neo-Zionism. It is that vicious selfishness. It is that semitism on a level with anti-semitism and now beginning to be comparable in effects. The state of Israel has no moral right to pursue its preponderant aim in Gaza.
That is not quite all. In its neo-Zionism, Israel has no moral right to defend itself against the rockets used against it. Whatever the instincts of human nature, it has no more right to defend itself against them than Hitler Germany had a right to defend itself and its death camps.
What Israel is engaged in is not even war. For a war, in the connotation of the term that is necessary, including necessary for propaganda, you need two sides comparable in power. What is happening in Gaza now is something else.
It is the Palestinians who have had, and now have, a moral right to their terrorism, their justified self-defence against neo-Zionism, in all of historic Palestine. The argument for that proposition, partly on the basis of the Principle of Humanity, is now easier.

http://www.counterpunch.org/honderich12312008.html

Meanwhile Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, called for politicians, including President-elect Barack Obama, to take more action to broker peace.
"We must unite in urging all those who have the power to halt this spiral of violence to do so.
"Those raising the stakes through the continuation of indiscriminate violence seem to have forgotten nothing and learned nothing
"It must surely be clear that, whilst peace will not wipe out the memory of all past wrongs, it is the only basis for the future flourishing of both the Israeli and Palestinian peoples."
A coalition of 20 Muslim and non-Muslim groups has said it will hold a demonstration in London on Saturday against what it calls Israel's "barbaric attacks".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7806542.stm

The only thing I can do is step up my own blitzkrieg of economic war on all the tyrants in the west, as I've been doing since July.

All i can do is accept that most right-wing people, israel supporters and appeasers/apologists/apathists are already going down bigtime, financially, and I'm already cleaning up their loot and kicking them out of the entire field for good.

All i can do is keep working, pumping money, saving it or building it, feeding whom I can in the short term and expanding to feed and empower more in the longterm

All i can do is prepare to give industry and resource expansion to palestine, to fight their cause the right way, the way people like USA and Israel don't know - without guns, with peace, with love, with growth

Currently I am way better off than all the mooks who either supported israel or support the other m.i.c.'s that support israel - they got better jobs when leaving st paul's and oxbridge because they were not underdog-race and underdog-religion like me - they made it big, they overspent, then they lost all their security - that's their status quo now. Me I'm the opposite. ALL those I love in palestine will receive SO MUCH empowerment from me.

That's all I can do. It takes time. Meanwhile babies are having their heads blown off by Israeli pilots flying way above the heads of those babies. If I let them throw me off, even MORE babies die - somewhere someone draws a line and stops it - if the west can do nothing but moan, without sending a single troop to protect a single baby... it will have to be me and my work that puts the foot down.

Luckily ALL AROUND ME I see bush and neo-zion apologists losing their money and falling. Right now their wheels are still turning but they ARE upside down - they have crashed but the machine still continues - spending, eating, living stupidly - it will trail on for a few months until finally these fools realise how LITTLE they have and how stupid they have been by not just trying to STEAL so much money from the good people of the world, but, after losing it all and all their power, they carried on abusing, insulting, even KILLING, genocide-style, for months and months afterwards. No sympathy will come to the west from arabs. Do you think a PENNY of bailout-money will come to the USA or UK??? IF so, you are pretty stupid.

Instead people like me will totally bulldoze your industries and take control of them and make huge swathes of UK and USA unemployed.

I suppose I should get back to work now...

on the bright side - Israel's activities will lead to WORSENED RECESSION in the UK and USA due not only to worried oil prices but above all due to most of the people who agreed to help USA-UK in the last few months saying that they are having 2nd thoughts

overall the result of more of the same brutality is more of the same economic collapse

which is GOOD for me - ever since all my competitors (a lot of you are using this forum) lost their backbone and undeserved liquidity mechanisms I have had a fair playing field and am winning the economic war. Who cares about israel's bombs? One day ALL the money will be next door, in palestine, and they'll come crawling to be allowed back into the human race, these zionists and their american british french cohorts.

The arab countries need to go to their aid, not just watch their own get annihilated.

I was thinking, whilst listening to Brothers in Arms and drinking tea, that what you are saying, F, is that if a man comes into my house and holds me and/or my family at gunpoint and the police come in, they should just blow the whole house up with me inside, or come in with grenade launchers and blow up the criminal as he holds the gun to my children or wife's head.

You are suggesting that this is a legitimate practise. But if it was your family you would in fact NOT say that - in my case it is, to a greater or lesser extent according to the WIND alone, the fact. Gun-carrying men, whether you deem them militant aggressors or armed defenders, are at large and you propose they are killed by blowing up houses with planes. In London and other cities there have been raids on terrorists (and remember, Nelson Mandela and Mohandas Gandhi were BOTH labelled terrorists for most of their youthful lives - in Mandela's case quite far into old age by the "ALLIED FORCES AND GOVERNMENTS" - a lot of people also say Mandela was castrated in a British/White-South-African prison, and Mugabe also) and capture. NO CIVILIANS in those raids are allowed to be in the way. The only time a civilian was ever killed was when they accidentally targeted a civilian (even more twisted, however).

You must change your attitude otherwise it WILL ultimately come back to you. My way includes no death for either party, your way requires I accept you can kill my girlfriend with a bazooka or even just a whopping big missile and blame the terrorist 200 feet away.

This is not callous or anything. It's just blind. You must open your eyes. You ARE failing your own loved ones by having this attitude. Love builds, it does not kill. I say this in order to help out anyone here who doesn't understand that human life cannot be subjected to games of who the f--- are you. sure we can talk about whose ebusiness is bigger, who can blow the other out of retail existence at 300 yards with a catapault and so forth, but to play games like that with human life is very bad.

I agree with George Galloway and other respected leaders, eg Chomsky, and I think the Israeli state and industrial machine must be boycotted and I believe that aggressive but legal (in the free market) takeover of the west's economies by good people from ALL parts of the world is needed in order to force this chess game towards checkmate and stop the mounting casualties of this greedy overloaded global babylonian crusade.

Fullscale anti-apartheid against Israel and ANYONE WHO FINANCES ISRAEL'S MILITARY OR GOVERNMENT OR INDUSTRY(!) has to be adopted with huge support and money and power - look at the spiralling activism worldwide - the right sort of renegade media mogul can EASILY 'poke' such an action into existence - the second vietnam era - a whole new evolution in protest - full-scale education on how South Africa's racist system was destroyed by the whole world unifying in disgust. We can crush Israel now, and any other state in the world (looking bad for Egypt) who does that, and indeed hangs gay people, tortures people on behalf of numerous other people and themselves, etc.

My work's going well, and in another room I can hear the sound of Cypress Hill singing **** the Hammer. I may go and absorb its words a little now...