It wasn't an insult, it was more of a "WOW".

I suppose thousands of lines of text are what you get when you fool with a man's golden toilet seat.

Originally Posted by witnesstheday

a MAJORITY OF JEWS (outside israel) who no longer wish to tolerate israel's war crimes.

I love broad sweeping statements of non-fact without a shred of evidence to back them up. Its like saying the majority of Irish condemn the drinking done in Ireland. You need your own church pulpit where you can inculcate your belief system into the unwitting.

Originally Posted by witnesstheday

The invasion of Palestine provoked resistance. The resistance didn't provoke the invasion. Zionist extra-judicial killings of Palestinians broke the six-month truce, not Hamas. 'Rockets' and 'incursions' aren't even a 'chicken-and-egg' situation. The invasion clearly preceded Palestinian resistance and the formation of Palestinian groups opposed to invasion.

Reality problems again? Lets assume what you say is true(which it isn't). You shot my dog, so I killed your son? Is that the logic? Clever.

Since you brought up S. Africa, which has nothing to do with Palestine unless you want to own up to being an Anti-Semite, I think S. Africa's post Mendela history has been most interesting.

Nelson Mandela, whose term as president cemented his reputation as one of the world's most farsighted and magnanimous statesmen, retired in 1999. On June 2, 1999, Thabo Mbeki, the pragmatic deputy president and leader of the ANC, was elected president in a landslide, having already assumed many of Mandela's governing responsibilities. In his first term, Mbeki wrestled with a slumping economy and a skyrocketing crime rate. South Africa, the country with the highest number of HIV-positive people in the world (6.5 million in 2005), has been hampered in fighting the epidemic by its president's highly controversial views. Mbeki has denied the link between HIV and AIDS and claimed that the West has exaggerated the epidemic to boost drug profits. The international community as well as most South African leaders, including Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu, have condemned Mbeki's stance. In 2006, 60 international scientists called the government's policies “disastrous and pseudo-scientific.”
As expected, on April 15, 2004, the African National Congress won South Africa's general election in a landslide, taking about 70% of the vote, and Thabo Mbeki was sworn in for a second term.
In December 2007, African National Committee delegates chose Jacob Zuma as their leader, ousting Mbeki, who had been in control of the party for the last ten years. With the victory, Zuma is poised to become president when Mbeki's term expires in 2009. Zuma was acquitted of rape charges in 2006. In late December, prosecutors reopened corruption charges against Zuma and ordered him to face trial for "various counts of racketeering, money laundering, corruption, and fraud." Zuma's lawyers accused Mbeki of trying to sabotage Zuma's political career. A High Court judge dismissed the corruption charges against Zuma in September 2008, saying the government mishandled the prosecution. The judge also criticized President Mbeki for attempting to influence the prosecution of Zuma.
Under pressure from leaders the African National Congress (ANC), Mbeki announced he would step down just days after Zuma was cleared. While party leader's cited Mbeki's alleged interference in the corruption case against Zuma, Mbeki's resignation culminated several years of bitter infighting between Zuma and Mbeki, which led to discord in the ANC. On Sep. 25, Parliament elected Kgalema Motlanthe, a labor leader who was imprisoned during apartheid, as president. Zuma must be a member of Parliament before he can be elected president. Parliamentary elections are expected in early 2009.
On his first day as president, Motlanthe acted to move beyond Mbeki's resistance to using modern and effective methods, such as antirretroviral medicines, to tackle its AIDS crisis by replacing South Africa's health minister, Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, who has suggested that garlic, lemon juice, and beetroot could cure AIDS, with Barbara Hogan. "The era of denialism is over," she said. More than 5.7 million South Africans are HIV-positive, the highest number of any country in the world.

A people deserves its leader?

Hey check it out. Someone I admire and respect seems to agree with your doomsday view of the current position in the West, though he seems to disagree with way it could play out if things go south. Would be nice to see this guy as president in 2012.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZiw3qVdFzw

By the way I've calculated that I ought to convert at least 100,000 people into boycotters by about 2011. Of course those 100,000 will convert others, so it doesn't end at my 100,000. To convert them I have to ensure I reach 3 million.

Still, 100,000 people is not bad for 2 years? I think it's a worthwhile job. And of course the way people mock anyone who tries to stand up for the weak always reminds me that it is a very good cause. It is the start - of something really good.

Anyway, 100,000 people, each of them would be a sale with a couple of £ sterling commission for me if I used my talent + my persistence + my gamesmanship to advertise my commercial site rather than to do this boycott, but it would NEVER give me the same satisfaction. All that money... who needs it? I notice one thing about most people who scorn anything decent - such people looove money.

CBRN, don't mistake my new post as an indication that I've read your recent odours (well, given what part of your body you talk out of, I can't really call what eminates from you "words" - definitely just odours).

Originally Posted by witnesstheday

And of course the way people mock anyone who tries to stand up for the weak always reminds me that it is a very good cause.

Actually, the mocking comes from defending people who hide behind women and children, not from defending the weak. Maybe you should re-read my Charles Manson comparison.

Originally Posted by witnesstheday

CBRN, don't mistake my new post as an indication that I've read your recent odours (well, given what part of your body you talk out of, I can't really call what eminates from you "words" - definitely just odours).

Another personal insult. I guess that means I get to add your name to the list of people who's souls I own.

This week US construction and mining equipment maker Caterpillar has taken steps to cut about 20,000 jobs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7855661.stm

Although the third world is badly hit, the increase in pain is not noticeable to it given what it suffers, but here we see "The New Third World"...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7860469.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7862370.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7856020.stm

It is time to see what the other half do when they are the underdogs and others are the overlords. The economic tables have turned against all fascists and nazis. The Israeli Genocide at Gaza marked the final act of rage by the nazis at their having been economically immobilized. Made a completely redundant force. Economic imperialism is a dirty game. Those who live by it, die by it. I don't see anyone in Gaza with a history of having stolen money from half the planet.

I was trying to find an article referring to a figure showing that the UK is the worst hit country, economically, in Europe - which I read somewhere in passing.

By the way, all this economic despair makes it very powerful to kick Israel in the economic nuts, because it means they, and ALL their economic allies are desperate and in need and badly want more money and will reel in horror at anything which screws up any of their fading economy's income. All the babylon nations have (incl india) turned into zones of economic horror with unrest, protests and rage. The judgement of greedy peoples has arrived. Palestinians don't know how good they've got it. I live in Babylon. I see these sick people with their sick lives all around me. We all do.

A financial blow directed at israel from the populus (following the clearly devised one which struck US-UK-France-Americisrael and many of their economic colonies which has arisen from a formerly subersive now ruling financial class from across the far east, south asian east, south american subcontinent, and many other disparate but valianet financial states) would be very potent.

The way america fell looked like the natural result of its eating its own financial faeces, but in reality it was driven by pressure from numerous economic forces across the globe and well timed events. I went online on many political forums in july and said that when the Chinese Olympics began the USA would fall, because I knew how, roughly, the showdown would come. And it did. From the time of the Olympics' start, to now, the western world has been turned, with its colonies, into the new third world.

China, on the other hand, is still growing at 8 or 9% at least, i believe, so any mention of its demise is flawed since it omits to mention china is a feudal imperialist superstate and feeds off poor people. the more people under its police truncheons the richer it gets. it controls how many children are bred, classifies them and beats them to death if they disobey. it's the new america.

Darfur is sponsored by china. As china's economic partners/slaves we/you have a duty to speak out for those who are dying there. If the arab muslim world wants to interfere it can do so, and help change the troubles there for the better. I know little about it but I do know that these rich powerful men and women have a duty to put things right in their neighbourhoods if they can.

See Caterpillar fall now. Remember that these falls are driven by the fury of those who want to see them fall. They are made weak, and so when the time of greatest trouble comes they are unprotected and fall easily. Coca Cola, Macdonalds, Nestle and many others who have done many other internationally criminal things besides supporting Israel - have all been suffering big losses for years and they've had to totally alter their business models to face the new market - they offer cheaper and cheaper products, bigger and bigger discounts, they creep in at every new level they can, because all the while their brand is being harmed, day by day by day. They buy up new brands, like a webmaster buying more and more domains to spam with, they spread themselves out and we, the activists, the whistleblowers, drive them back more and more. I quit coca cola almost 10 years ago. I'd given up all television until 911, then i started again to stay current, but now i quit it again a few years ago and haven't gone back. macdonalds? 2 hamburgers in 4 months. and that was rare. going back 5 years... not more than 3 or 4 burgers from them.

So be inspired, be creative and do things to spread the world to anyone who can easily be convinced to boycott. Do it subtly, if you can. Start by enforcing the boycott on yourself in a few key ways. I bet many people reading this page drink coca cola? Yeah. Well stop. You're drinking palestinian blood and the macdonalds burger you munch is also bathed in that blood.

great article I found - a lot of crucial detail in it...







The nation that sees itself as the most misunderstood in the world celebrates its 60th birthday with deep apprehension about the future. Haim Baram finds anger and defensiveness among its politicians A deeply hidden diplomatic relationship between Israel and Jordan underpins the history of the search for peace in the Middle East

Israel marks its 60th birthday in a climate of increasing racism, intolerance, corruption and militarism. A nation that has long seen itself as one of the most misunderstood is now almost unable to understand the world beyond its borders. Fear and anxiety provide the mood music of the celebrations.
The past decade has brought a sharp increase in anti-Arab sentiment, which finds many forms of expression, from sordid chants at sporting events ("Death to the Arabs") to blatant racism and attacks on Arab colleagues by right-wing pol iticians in the Knesset. In such an atmosphere, it is almost impossible for Arab citizens (or 1948 Palestinians) to identify with the state of Israel, despite the terms of their legal status. Indeed, it is increasingly difficult for them even to protect their civil rights and express themselves freely in public.
Anyone who doubts the depth of anti-Arab feeling has only to scan the internet. On 8 May, I was commissioned by the popular news site Walla! (associated with the newspaper Haaretz)to write a short column about the Israeli national anthem, "Hatikva" (or Hope). Haaretz had asked another writer to support the anthem. I was commissioned to write against it and to suggest a more suitable one.
My main point of opposition was that the opening words - "As long as deep in the heart/A Jewish soul yearns . . . towards Zion" - excluded the more than one million Arab citizens of Israel. Walla! debates are allocated some two hours' airtime and previous ones, for example on economic issues or the evacuation of the Jewish settlements in Gaza, have generated talkback that was overwhelmingly right-wing. However, the anthem debate exceeded even my pessimistic ex pectations.
Within an hour 481 comments had appeared, 472 of which were vehemently anti-Arab and abusive of "bleeding-heart leftists". Some of the comments were simply racist, but the majority were nationalistic, betraying deep hatred of Israel's Arab citizens.
Such expressions are now commonplace. If an Arab member of the Knesset (MK) expresses solidarity with Palestinians in the besieged Gaza area, the comment will be scrutinised minutely by Jewish politicians and journalists. Accusations of high treason are commonplace. Proposed parliamentary bills single out Arab MKs for clearly discriminatory treatment. One right-wing former minister, Avigdor Liberman, regularly threatens his fellow MK Ahmad Tibi in tones that are becoming increasingly brutal. Liberman himself faces serious accusations of corruption and bribery and, as his indictment becomes virtually inevitable, he has resorted to lurid and vociferous language said to go down well in his largely Russian-speaking constituency.
Amid intensifying hostility and even derision, the Jewish left and a handful of liberals from the political centre try to voice their protest. Centrist Zionists dissociate themselves from anti-Arab sentiment and claim there is no contradiction between Israel's claim to be a liberal democracy and the view that the Zionist nature of Israel is paramount and transcends norms of equality and democracy. Others claim anti-Arab feeling stems from misguided nationalism rather than racism. A reputable economist in Tel Aviv compared "the fervent patriotism in Israel, accompanied by lurid hostility against Arabs" with anti-German sentiment in Britain before the Great War.
"It is not 'racist' in the sense of generalising the entire Arab population or regarding them as inferior to us," he told me. "If the Israelis and the Palestinians were to reach a peace agreement, the hatred would evaporate." Depressing as it may seem, that was one of the most optimistic statements I heard during the anniversary celebrations.
To celebrate Independence Day this year, Israeli television screened a documentary about the 1948 war veterans. The normally alienated and cosmopolitan television producers and directors had flooded our screens with sickening, even embarrassing, bits of nostalgia. This documentary, however, was a gem. The veterans in the film, some approaching their nineties and therefore somewhat frail, were taken to the southernmost Israeli city of Eilat, on the shores of the Red Sea.
All had taken part in the bloodless capture of Eilat and had become famous 60 years earlier for raising, in the beautiful bay, a handmade Israeli flag painted in ink, thus securing Israel's access to the Red Sea.
At one important moment in the film, they were requested to state their views on Israel today. Had it met the expectations they had had back in 1948? Were they pleased with the way Israel had evolved? All expressed bitter disappointment, pointing to rampant corruption, the accusations of bribery laid against Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, and the nation's collective failure to secure a peace agreement with its Arab neighbours, including the Palestinians.
The most articulate of the veterans was Major General Avraham Adan, chief commander during the occupation of Eilat and the only senior officer, apart from Ariel Sharon, to emerge from the disastrous 1973 Yom Kippur War with flying colours. Adan masterminded the crossing of the Suez Canal in that traumatic war and has felt ever since that Sharon stole the glory which rightly belonged to him. Clear and lucid at 89, Adan was blatant in his criticism.
"Israel has changed for the worse," said the general. "Corruption gnaws at our fabric and threatens our very existence. We dreamed about a different, more egalitarian and more moral society."
Undoubtedly, Adan was expressing the feelings of most Israelis. Successive polls in Yedioth Ahronoth, Israel's most popular daily newspaper, show that the vast majority of Israelis do not trust the Establishment and are deeply wary of Olmert. Accusations of bribery are rife and it is almost certain that the prime minister will be indicted.
Uneasy conformists
Israel's Jews are conformist in their attitudes to institutions such as the anthem or the army, but they have become more aware of the impotence of their government and, at times, of its malevolence. The failure of the Israel Defence Forces in the Second Lebanon War of 2006 undermined the confidence of ordinary Israelis: the beneficiary of the crisis has been the right-wing Likud Party.
On 2 May, Haaretz carried an interview with Yaakov Weinroth, a respected barrister and self-professed Marxist. The paper's intelligent readership was treated to a breathtaking tour de force from this anti-corruption orator (who is, nevertheless, the legal adviser of most of Israel's corrupt politicians and of the settlers). Weinroth spoke at length in favour of social justice, yet expressed his support for the neoliberal Likud leader, Binyamin Netanyahu. Such contradictions confuse public opinion, and enhance Netanyahu's status not only in intellectual circles, but even among the direct victims of his social policies. False consciousness is not unique to Israel, but the geopolitical isolation of the country exacerbates the situation.
Perhaps the most telling sign of the nation's fear and distrust of the world outside came in the recent reaction to criticism levelled at the Chelsea Football Club coach Avram Grant in England. Grant has become an unlikely cult hero in his native Israel. Aviad Pohoryles, a sports commentator for Maariv, a popular Hebrew-language newspaper, found in Chelsea's unexpected win over Liverpool an opportunity to berate the British for their supposed anti-Israel attitude. England, he claimed, had always conducted a blatantly anti-Israel foreign policy: "Some of Grant's lack of legitimacy derives from this negative attitude towards Israel. Grant's presence at Stamford Bridge constitutes a certain answer to these heartless people."
Pohoryles is a reputed writer from the very mainstream, neither a settler nor a vehement right-winger. His deep suspicion of the British media, and his castigation of a journalist who happened to be critical of Grant's coaching style, hinting that the journalist's criticism was founded in anti-Semitism, are typical of an antipathy towards the British. There is a widely held belief that when the west criticises Israel, or when human rights organisations worldwide protest against the occupation, they are revealing deeply held, "traditional, Christian anti-Semitism".
Many Israelis, even liberals and left-wingers, hold Europeans morally responsible for the Holocaust either by participating in, or being indifferent to, the annihilation of the Jews during the Second World War. It would be a mistake to underestimate the profound influence such attitudes continue to wield on Israeli politics.
Haim Baram is a writer based in Jerusalem

The first proper e-qassam was just launched! If it lands successfully, it'll reach 1 to 2000 people, most of whom are housewives who do the household shopping... (well hey, I built this thing to SELL CONSUMER GOODS, didn't i?)

Another 400+ e-qassams will launch over the next 72 hours, then I'll just carry on building more - another 600 to 700 can launch next week, after that I'm back to dragging for more forums and blogs!

If I were muslim in my faith I'd say "bismillah", but instead I say this, as a cowboy, which I is...

Yeeeeeeeehaaaaaa!

Originally Posted by andrei155

It wasn't an insult, it was more of a "WOW".

Sorry, i've been on edge. having to deal with far too many people who show enjoyment at the loss of palestinian blood! It makes one snap easily. Sorry.

Is that disgusting or what?
Boycott these muthas. Boycott them today if you have a soul!

Originally Posted by witnesstheday

A LOT of boycotters want USA targeted as well, or second to Israel... opinions like yours will make that very easy for me to bring about

Threats? Why is it Palestinians threaten and say "Death to America" and in the same breath ask for our sympathy?


Here is a nice photo of some of your children posing for photos over a dead IDF member. Here are a couple links providing some pretty shocking video of Palestinians doctoring photos (Remember Iran's "multi" missle launch?) and desecrating the dead for "Maximum Media Impact".
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/012609.php
http://newsbusters.org/node/7002
http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/


Personally, I buy the authenticity of your photo. There are always going to be a couple retards (Re: Abu Ghrab) who act inappropriately and represent you badly, even though they may not be representative.

On the other hand, you have "YOUR" people, and I'm talking your OFFICIAL representatives doing the same or worse and bragging about it!

"Al-Qassam Brigades display remnants of an Israeli soldier’s dead body in southern Gaza"
http://www.imemc.org/article/51174
Here are some stories, though a bit dated, of your elected leadership taking credit for the intentful killing of civilian children:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphinarium_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sbarro_...uicide_bombing

And you want sympathy? You elected these people to be your leaders, and you get exactly what goes along with that.

I hate to use the word "Idiocy" again, since you are going to report me , but seriously, what is so difficult to understand? You will NEVER get the majority to sympathize with your cause while you launch rockets, make threats, and refuse to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. To think otherwise is just, well, idiotic. You should also realize that as long as you have a terrorist organization running your country, your motives and actions will always be viewed under the shadow of suspicion.

I urge other readers to use the "add to ignore list" function in order to most educatedly handle CBRN/CWBM's posts! I don't read them myself, in case anyone's wondering. Web developers have the ability to use pages and purposely ignore chunks of em (hey, I make my money by ensuring people who take my content seriously end up spending money, so I know full well that ignoring bits of pages is the only way to not keep getting poorer!).

As things stand I have kicked off my contribution to the boycott but still not pushed it into huge-momentum state. For a few days I have LOTS of affiliate admin work to do and by the time I'm through with it I'll be soooo bored of that I'll be driven to just pump out 100s of boycott messages, because it'll be a refreshing change and I'm really really quite anxious to get on with it, but this affiliate admin stuff has finally become the main meat of my daily routine and I don't want to leave it until the current phase of work is totally finished.

Again, ignore CWBM's replies - it doesn't help you no matter what your perspective is. If you are against the israeli-US-sponsored genocide, he'll just annoy the hell out of you, if you are in favour of it, you'll feel very sad that your cause is represented by a man so bad at hiding the homophobic chauvinistic racist qualities which underlie the political bloc you have chosen to be a part of.

I have now added CWBM to my own ignore list and this thread, and all my other threads in this section are no longer immensely stressful for me to read - give it a try, I recommend it!

Actually I went ahead and did some more boycott work, and it's gone well (although when I came back here I'd been deducted 4 points from my reputation for this thread by someone who I don't believe is a moderator or part of the forum, but who claimed that I have broken forum rules on this thread... if that's the case I hope a moderator has time to let me know this is the case!)

I found some interesting stuff - firstly I found sites fall into two moderator categories - people who will delete an israel-boycott post off the site straight away (but none of them wiped off my sig-link-ads, when i was running THOSE) and those who don't feel that just because a thread is about boycotting israel it is spam.

Also I found that on a lot of places which allowed the post to stay (which forums I marked GOOD, rather than EVIL, on my spreadsheet) 40 right wing rude angry posts were added after my post, and maybe the occasional murmur of support managed to creep in - this is good - they not only bump the post, they shock the liberal minds into thinking the boycott really IS as necessary as I want them to feel it is.

It's really nice when i find someone posting useful info and helping and supporting the boycott. That has happened too. So it's going well and I feel like I can definitely pull it off the way I had imagined. Just a lot of hard work, and I'm quite used to that.

So rather than ask about the forum rule that was allegedly broken, resulting in my loss of hard earned reputation points gained through telling really good jokes, I'm wondering this: is nullpointer a moderator or in some other way fully versed in forum rules? If so, could he actually cite the forum rule he claims I've broken, or gimme back my points! I told GOOD jokes to get those points. Also I don't wanna break any forum rules because it's a cool forum. So let me know - what rule did I break? Or is NP simply pretending he's deducting points for a rule when really he's deducting it for opposing a political opinion - which is fine, just be man enough to say it and talk straight and not hide behind vagueries!

Let me answer these as best I can, since I've been on here awhile, then get back to your OP:

Originally Posted by witnesstheday

I found some interesting stuff - firstly I found sites fall into two moderator categories - people who will delete an israel-boycott post off the site straight away (but none of them wiped off my sig-link-ads, when i was running THOSE) and those who don't feel that just because a thread is about boycotting israel it is spam.

A bevy of cut-and-paste articles thrown onto the site does qualify as spam. Keep in mind, too, that the Politics and Religion forum was intended for DISCUSSION of controversial topics; it's not a platform simply to broadcast one side of an issue. The proper place for that would be your own blog.

Consensus is NOT required here; proper debate is, after all, multifaceted. Respect IS a requirement. As a moderate, I find myself frequently on the opposing side of both sides of the aisle, so to speak. But that does not mean that my opponents are devoid of reason or wisdom; personally, I dare not allow myself that hubris.

Toward furthering said debate, and doing your cause justice, I have to respectfully ask: Are you aware that your writing style is consistent with someone who is bipolar on the upswing? Many here and in your target audience elsewhere will not read posts with a writing style that is grandiose, far too verbose, and, for lack of a better term, all over the place. Your writing should have an economy of words necessary for the maximum impact, both here and elsewhere.

Originally Posted by witnesstheday

I'm wondering this: is nullpointer a moderator or in some other way fully versed in forum rules?

Nullpointer's been here quite awhile, and all of us at one time or another have called someone on the carpet for being abusive or otherwise breaking the rules. He is within his right to give someone neg rep for a post that breaks the rules, just as much as he has the right to give positive feedback. I don't know why you got the neg rep, but if I had to guess it was when you called cbwm a Neo-Nazi. That's WAY over the line, IMHO, and I had considered giving you neg rep myself when I saw that.

That being said, I wish you luck in your boycott effort. The United Nations seems to agree with you that Israel has crossed the line on many occasions. So do I. But I would caution you that any attempt to hold Palestinians harmless is short-sighted at best. Launching rockets into Israel, as just one instance, was just plain dumb. You're just not going to draw many to your cause playing just one side of the album. To believe otherwise would make me think you've got that Tardis locked in a parallel universe.

tim