Originally Posted by serandfae

To take this a bit further, the Bible admonishes that to think of a sin (the word literally meaning a separation from God) is as bad as the act. So every sin really is original sin: That is, not taking from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but turning our backs on God to begin with, without which the former would not have happened.

But, now, if we're supposedly created in God's image (which I take to mean spirit), Christ taught too that with just enough faith, if we commanded a mountain to move, it would. So, if we tiny little creatures really are that powerful, we should watch our thoughts.

Christ warned against the fundamentalists, witch killers, and the like, then known as the Pharisees, Sadduces, and stone-throwers. To the former, he said to let them have their kingdom, which was here alone. To the latter, he said those without sin only should throw the first stone. Pity though it is, there are fundamentalists in every philosophy and religion, even atheism, who will lump every truly faithful soul in with the "fundies" of his particular worldview. So what? Live your life, and don't stand for evil when there's something you can do about it. Your life, after all, is your true testimony of belief, whether you think it is or not.

But, back to your original point, whether we choose to realize it or not, we are all connected to this sphere and one another. Anyone, regardless of faith, who acts otherwise is an idol worshipper. Even those who put the idea of God above the connection with it fall into this category.

tim

Nice view.

To turn your back on God, you must first believe that there is a God to turn from.
Many believer think that non believers are rejecting god but you cannot reject was is not in your reality. There is just nothing to reject.

As to your last.
Enjoy these.

Regards
DL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cd36WJ79z4&feature=player_embedded#!

To turn your back on God, you must first believe that there is a God to turn from.

Irrefutable logic.

A non-believer must first believe there is nothing to believe in!

“Now it is such a bizarrely impossible coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistence of God.
The arguement goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," say Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't though of that" and promply vanishes in a puff of logic.
Man then goes on to prove that white is black and black is white and gets himself killed at the next zebra crossing.”

Trouble is you can never have a real debate with "god-botherers". 'cos they are always right.

Originally Posted by chrishirst

Trouble is you can never have a real debate with "god-botherers". 'cos they are always right.

Here Here. If thats how its said?

Originally Posted by chrishirst

Irrefutable logic.

A non-believer must first believe there is nothing to believe in!

Trouble is you can never have a real debate with "god-botherers". 'cos they are always right.

True on both points. By definition, to be a "fundamentalist" you must have something fundamental from which you will not move. You don't have to be a fundie to be Christian, nor do you have to be Christian to be a fundie.

Personally, I think you have to call everything in your system of belief, whatever it may be, to keep it real. The ones who encourage us to do so, however, tend to have very short life spans.

But there are those without a God concept who still hold that right action stems from being right mentally and spiritually first, and the former springs only from the latter. The Taoists come first to mind in this, then the Buddhists (yes, Buddhists do have a God concept, but it doesn't take the same "flavor" as the Judeo-Christian-Islamic one, but the concept of Tao is not a divine one). I have known some atheists who are still spiritual, they just don't attribute that spiritualism to a divine being.

So, the long and the short of it is, neither God nor spiritualism require a set of rules to follow. Rules come from living in society, and that doesn't require a God concept. Moreover, I'd argue that rules are put into place for those who either equate God with rules, and think that all life is on the punishment/reward system, or who think themselves islands and "special", or can't come to grips with the fact that (and this has been scientifically proven) there is a will above our wiring that, if for nothing else but our own mental health, we need to look after. Look up Dr. Schwartz at UCLA for the proof, if you doubt me.

tim

Originally Posted by Greatest I am

We are set levels. Mine is low tolerance to idiotic notions.
To me, to not correct adults and older children to the reality that imaginary Satans and angels and demons and water walkers and talking animals is shirking my duty to my fellow man and if you all Googled Jesus camps and killing African witches to see what I mean then you may not see it as I do.
belief in angels leads to the death of witch children as far as I am concerned.

For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing friends.
Do not be caught doing nothing.

Regards
DL

You might feel it's your duty, however, some of these Religious persons are pretty radical and feel very strongly on their beliefs, you are liable to have your head blown off.

Originally Posted by Giselle

You might feel it's your duty, however, some of these Religious persons are pretty radical and feel very strongly on their beliefs, you are liable to have your head blown off.

I let others be ruled by fear. I will continue to do something so that evil does not grow.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by Greatest I am

I will continue to do something so that evil does not grow.

That depends on what you define as "evil"...

Is killing evil?

Originally Posted by Giselle

You might feel it's your duty, however, some of these Religious persons are pretty radical and feel very strongly on their beliefs, you are liable to have your head blown off.

Yep. That's about what they did to Socrates, Jesus, Galileo...and yet while they died, their messages survived, while those of the ones that killed them ultimately died.

However, I think it depends on the delivery. I've become convinced over the years that the more you praise God, the less you do, and much of the music I've been writing of late speaks to that, more practical and less "praise-ey". Marketing, people, marketing. The original message ain't that bad, but you gotta get people to come to it.

Let's face it, a lot of Christianity is still in the Dark Ages. A lot of 'em still think that if you get some disease it's God's punishment. I personally find it reprehensible to do good things or not do bad things out of fear of hell or hope for heaven, but that's still a big seller some places. And that transactional, reward-and-punishment God is deep in the collective subconscious, even amongst those who aren't so fundamentalist.

Hell, even Einstein said, "God does not play dice." And yet, the universe seemingly operates according to laws of chance, and according to Heisenberg, the act of measuring one part of a thing affects ability to measure other parts on the quantum level (and yes I know I'm oversimplifying that). But, I digress. If even Einstein can react in such a way, it should come as little surprise that others can, to varying degrees. And it's difficult at best to sell a God that's in everything and everyone but designed things to run at random and evolve when the "Daddy figure" that blesses and curses is curiously more comfortable to so many.

So, knowing that much of Christianity is still desperately in need of saving from itself, how would you market the alternative, lessening the chance of, well, getting your fool head blown clean off?

Originally Posted by blue-dreamer

That depends on what you define as "evil"...

Is killing evil?

No. Murder is.

tim

It's not a question of being ruled by fear, common sense tells one who wants to have their head blown clean off, what will one accomplish by being dead? Yes there are better ways of spreading one's idea's legally, factually without putting your life on the line. Although I think DL you will have a very tough time convincing the Christian population not to believe in Angels.

Here are some ways of marketing, writing, film documentaries, etc.

Several years ago we had some problems with the Aryan Nation in Idaho, they were pretty powerful, they had a very powerful stronghold, terrorizing and creating a lot of problems. All the Religious leaders from different Religious organizations came together, talked, and then started spreading the word in their own congregations/groups, needless to say a powerful movement as one collective group with the backing of the FBI for legal matters. The Aryan Nation collapsed in Idaho, lately they are trying to start another camp in Oregon.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to go around to the different Religious leaders in your area and express your concerns and see what their feelings might be.

surely you shall open your mind widely,,,because no one or not only one faction which really concerned about the complexity of defining God itself.

Originally Posted by blue-dreamer

That depends on what you define as "evil"...

Is killing evil?

Yes and no.
Killing you, would be yes and killing hitler would be no.

In moral terms, the terms Good & Evil are only useful on a graph & are Inseparable.
I see that many just look at these terms as opposites.
Black white.
Hot cold.
Whatever.
It does not matter because, in moral terms, good and evil must be on a graph to be of any use to any discussion of moral issues.
That is why the ancients wrote them into the Bible as the tree of good and evil.
It’s fruit symbolizes that good and evil cannot be separated.

As nouns, forget it. For morals, they do not stand well alone.
As adjectives, they are good.
It is what goes between these two adjectives that is at issue and how and where we place them on the graph.
Ideally, the good and evil line will have a top and a bottom because issues often times have both within their character.
Like God for instance.
Basically, if you are arguing good and evil in any other way than described here; you are IMHO, wasting your time.
If you look to God for our moral sense you are also wasting your time because it is to mankind to set the rules of our dominion.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by Giselle

It's not a question of being ruled by fear, common sense tells one who wants to have their head blown clean off, what will one accomplish by being dead? Yes there are better ways of spreading one's idea's legally, factually without putting your life on the line. Although I think DL you will have a very tough time convincing the Christian population not to believe in Angels.

Here are some ways of marketing, writing, film documentaries, etc.

Several years ago we had some problems with the Aryan Nation in Idaho, they were pretty powerful, they had a very powerful stronghold, terrorizing and creating a lot of problems. All the Religious leaders from different Religious organizations came together, talked, and then started spreading the word in their own congregations/groups, needless to say a powerful movement as one collective group with the backing of the FBI for legal matters. The Aryan Nation collapsed in Idaho, lately they are trying to start another camp in Oregon.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to go around to the different Religious leaders in your area and express your concerns and see what their feelings might be.

LOL.
The last time I stopped to speak to a preacher, he would not accept the fact that we are part of the animal world or that apotheosis was possible while speaking to one who forced his. They are good for dogma and little else usually.

This Bishop is not a bad one though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZM3FXlLMug

You are right in saying that I will have a tough time moving believers away from belief in fantasy but take heart, the new generation is not as gullible as the last.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by decadance

surely you shall open your mind widely,,,because no one or not only one faction which really concerned about the complexity of defining God itself.

The true definition of the word God has been well defined forever. Rules.
It is man that has corrupted it by personalizing it for tribal reasons.

To know democracy, do we worship Plato or Socrates? No. We look to the rules and the name of who wrote them is inconsequential.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by Greatest I am

LOL.
The last time I stopped to speak to a preacher, he would not accept the fact that we are part of the animal world or that apotheosis was possible while speaking to one who forced his. They are good for dogma and little else usually.

This Bishop is not a bad one though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZM3FXlLMug

You are right in saying that I will have a tough time moving believers away from belief in fantasy but take heart, the new generation is not as gullible as the last.

Regards
DL

As far as I know, the Catholic Church is the only one who stands alone who recognizes Evolution, at the time they were hoping the other Religious organizations would follow suit.

The Bishop is way ahead of his time or should I say he gets it. Unfortunately the second link is an 1 hour - 23 minutes long, I bookmarked both links, my husband wants to hear the whole lecture and thinks the Bishop is pretty good in his thinking. The Bishop reminds me of Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, especially with that delicious sense of humor.

You're right, the newer generation isn't as gullible as the last, probably due to PBS where they have numerous educational documentaries on science. A big breakthrough was cracking the DNA coding which sheds a lot of light. The younger generation has numerous opportunities of re-educating themselves.

Originally Posted by Giselle

As far as I know, the Catholic Church is the only one who stands alone who recognizes Evolution, at the time they were hoping the other Religious organizations would follow suit.

The Bishop is way ahead of his time or should I say he gets it. Unfortunately the second link is an 1 hour - 23 minutes long, I bookmarked both links, my husband wants to hear the whole lecture and thinks the Bishop is pretty good in his thinking. The Bishop reminds me of Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, especially with that delicious sense of humor.

You're right, the newer generation isn't as gullible as the last, probably due to PBS where they have numerous educational documentaries on science. A big breakthrough was cracking the DNA coding which sheds a lot of light. The younger generation has numerous opportunities of re-educating themselves.

You are right about the heads of the R C C but I have been banned from most of their sites because I will not believe in talking animals. The adherents have not quite kept up with their leaders. They will not even follow the advice of the Pope.

Regards
DL