Since I moved to NC over 20 years ago, I've witnessed a shocking number of demands for the removal of memorials to Confederate dead. These memorials exist in practically every town in the South. The claim is that their continued existence is racist, a claim I find to be absurd, evident of an ignorance of history. The fight over tearing down Confederate flags and memorials is just the latest attack by history revisionists, who apparently don't realize that history should be taken for just what it is, for how else can you learn from it? The majority of them, in my opinion, want to use Confederate memorials and flags as a convenient symbol for their own agendas. Your thoughts?

tim

History should be left alone...it is what it is.....history....

Originally Posted by tenasidhe

... history should be taken for just what it is, for how else can you learn from it?...

Some people (overwhelmed by their own wisdom and moral perfection) have decided that history should be re-written to teach the lessons that they approve of. These people are Politically Correct. They are, by definition, correct, so why argue?

"Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." - Winston Churchill

I find it not just a bit ironic that the same demographic that wants Confederate memorials removed (that is, non-natives to the South) is the same demographic that voted in the school board in Wake County, NC that's railroading in their version of "community schools". They've made this area a national embarrassment by turning what was one of the most racially diverse school systems in the nation back to resegregation, in the de facto sense. So much for learning from history.

In my experience, most people today who depict Confederate flags, soldiers, and the like are expressing admiration for a group that resisted a hostile regime. Racism doesn't even factor into it. Let's face it, most Confederate soldiers were too poor to own slaves, for one thing, and the Civil War was not about slavery. The North was close to passing an amendment to allow slavery, that only failed when the South seceded. The provisions regarding slavery when the South was defeated were only an afterthought. So really, slavery and racism are separate issues from the war, and you'll never hear that racism was prevalent throughout the country, or that not all the slave states were in the South, or that conditions for blacks were horrific throughout the United States. Emancipation and civil rights are certainly important issues, but equating them with the war is propaganda that's taken place since the end of the Civil War, that started with public schools that were put in place (gasp!) at the same time. The victor writes the history, and teaches it to all the school children.

So basically, those who object to depictions of the Confederacy are throwing red herrings at real issues, such as that we're teaching our kids lies and dumbing their school systems down to turn them into little worker bees, not free thinkers.

tim

It's a bit like the Church of England having Tony Blair apologise for the slave trade that ended 200 years ago.

It's history! It happened! It cannot be changed now. Learn from and move on.

What will they move on to next?
The memorials to the World Wars because it might offend the Germans?
The 911 memorial because it might offend the terrorists?
Rename every pub and hotel named "Waterloo" or "Duke of Wellington" because it might upset the French?

Somebody should explain to these people what the memorials (all of them) are for. "Lest we forget"!

*BANG*

Is the sound of my head exploding from the blood pressure on subjects like this.
Leave things alone!
Its history... HISTORY!!!! The clues in the word!

Originally Posted by chrishirst

It's a bit like the Church of England having Tony Blair apologise for the slave trade that ended 200 years ago...

Talk about political correctness gone mad!

It was the BRITISH who ABOLISHED slavery. The Slave Trade Act 1807 resulted in a squadron of British warships patrolling the African coast to stop anybody making new slaves. The Slavery Abolition Act 1833 made sure that any slave would become free upon reaching any territory controlled by Britain.

If the ungrateful American colonies had not had their revolution in 1776, the American slaves would have been freed at least 30 years earlier.

As far as I've personally observed, those who display Confederate colors are typically racist, but they also don't seem to identify one with the other. I think that considering slavery was the main reason for the Confederacy's secession, it's reasonable to assume there's some connection, though... however, the symbols themselves are not racist. Slavery and its abolishment had little to do with racism, but with basic human rights. Most who fought for abolishment were still racist. Took another hundred+ years for the war against racism to begin.

Originally Posted by C0ldf1re

It was the BRITISH who ABOLISHED slavery.

Correction, the British abolished slavery in Britain.

Originally Posted by C0ldf1re

If the ungrateful American colonies had not had their revolution in 1776, the American slaves would have been freed at least 30 years earlier.

Technically, the Brits are the ones who CREATED slavery in America. FYI, American leaders wanted to abolish it as early as 1776, but it was too intrinsically tied into the economy by their predecessors (the Brits), and elimination of it that early would have meant failure of the young country.

Originally Posted by smoseley

... I think that considering slavery was the main reason for the Confederacy's secession....

The contemporaneous records that I have read suggest that MONEY and FREEDOM were the reasons for the war. President Lincoln's Inaugural Address clearly stated in his own words that he had no desire to abolish slavery.

Originally Posted by smoseley

Correction, the British abolished slavery in Britain.

I'll rephrase my assertion. (1.) Britain was the first country to abolish slavery within its own borders and in territories that it controlled. (2.) Britain did so much to damage the international slave trade that the trade perished.

Originally Posted by smoseley

... slavery in America. FYI, American leaders wanted to abolish it as early as 1776, but it was too intrinsically tied into the economy...

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, etc were leaders who owned slaves. Your assertion is too broad and your excuse too thin.

Originally Posted by smoseley

As far as I've personally observed, those who display Confederate colors are typically racist....

There are two in this very thread who display the Battle Flag and support Confederate memorials who are not racist. Moreover, most of the ones here in the South who do are expressing Southern Pride, not all of them white, either. That's been a longstanding misconception that's been deliberately engineered, largely with the PC movement, which has prompted many displaying the Battle Flag to include the phrase, "Heritage, not hate."

tim

I am the yes vote.

The South is being boycotted for displaying the Confederate flag because it is racist. After some years the Confederate flag now represents slavery, lynchings, cross burnings, Ku Klux Klan, who now have joined up with the Aryan Nation which are Nazi's.

Due to the the boycotting the South has been losing revenue with tourism and sporting events. South Carolina has moved forward, on May 21 2010 passed a bill where only one day year the Confederate Flag will be displayed commemorating the lives lost in the Civil War on the Confederate side.

If the South wants to continually display the Confederate flag, so be it, that is their call.

If there was a "it depends" choice, I would have voted. I also live in the South (though I'm not from here originally).

I don't think that Confederate memorials are racist, they definitely a part of the heritage of the South. Also, those who re-enact Civil War battles, while somewhat annoying, definitely do not stand for anything racist by displaying the Confederate flag. I don't even object to government displays of the Confederate flag, as the flag is logically tied to the history of governing bodies in the South.

Despite all this, it is impossible to deny that the flag has morphed into a racist symbol without taking into account the facts of history. To say that it is outright not a racist symbol in any case is simply a stretch of the imagination. The people around here who ride around with Confederate flags on their trucks and bikes come across as being racist, even if they aren't. I never see any black people sporting the flag. Don't their roots run just as deep in the history of the South?

The fact is, the flag represents the heritage of WHITE people in the South, dating back to a time where whites were considered to be superior, and only a very small proportion of blacks were not the property of other people.

So is "heritage without hate" possible? Yes, but I'd rather not see the flag just casually flying around everywhere. It can be a part of your heritage without you constantly advertising a symbol that you KNOW many people consider to be blatantly racist and hateful. It's a message that you're sending even if you don't agree with the meaning.

Originally Posted by serandfae

There are two in this very thread who display the Battle Flag and support Confederate memorials who are not racist. Moreover, most of the ones here in the South who do are expressing Southern Pride, not all of them white, either. That's been a longstanding misconception that's been deliberately engineered, largely with the PC movement, which has prompted many displaying the Battle Flag to include the phrase, "Heritage, not hate."

Makes sense... I don't technically live in "The South", so those who display confederate colors around here are probably extremists rather than followers of the social norm. Again, I was only expressing my observation, which doesn't necessarily reflect the Universal truth.

Curious about "Southern Pride", though... being that the Confederacy was a rift from the establishment, wouldn't you think that "Southern Pride" as you say it would represent an anarchistic or separatist philosophy?

Originally Posted by Giselle

... The South is being boycotted for displaying the Confederate flag because it is racist...

Some people displaying the flag know perfectly well that it is not a racist symbol. I would not display a racist symbol.

Originally Posted by C0ldf1re

Some people displaying the flag know perfectly well that it is not a racist symbol. I would not display a racist symbol.

Did you read the whole post I wrote as to why the South is being boycotted and why it's racist?

Originally Posted by Giselle

Did you read the whole post I wrote as to why the South is being boycotted and why it's racist?

Yes, I read your whole post. Just saying, or thinking, that the flag is racist does not make it so.

Suppose a racist group puts crosses in the gardens of people they don't like. It doesn't make a cross a racist symbol.

Just because some racists wave the Confederate flag, it doesn't mean they own it, or can redefine its meaning.

It's just not me saying so or thinking the Confederate flag is racist, the information is all over the web, plus a few years back this issue was all over the National news.

No the cross doesn't represent racism, it was the Ku Klux Klan who were burning crosses on peoples property because the Whites were affiliated with the Blacks in a non-slavery way, which goes back to slavery and the Civil War. In fact we have had the burning crosses along with the swastikas up here a few years back in Idaho, the Ku Klux Klan joined up with the Aryan Nation. I have mentioned this before, the people all came together and pushed them out along with the FBI backup and legalities. This combined group also were sporting the Confederate flag plus the swastikas symbols.

Originally Posted by Giselle

I have mentioned this before, the people all came together and pushed them out along with the FBI backup and legalities. This combined group also were sporting the Confederate flag plus the swastikas symbols.

One thing I can say in defense of flags and speech, is that the flag that the KKK really sports the most of all is the good 'ol red white and blue of the USA.

I googled "confederate flag kkk" and this is the site I found: http://www.rulen.com/kkk/
also, this one: http://www.pointsouth.com/csanet/kkk.htm

Originally Posted by wayfarer07

One thing I can say in defense of flags and speech, is that the flag that the KKK really sports the most of all is the good 'ol red white and blue of the USA.

I googled "confederate flag kkk" and this is the site I found: http://www.rulen.com/kkk/
also, this one: http://www.pointsouth.com/csanet/kkk.htm

I went to both of those links Abel, doesn't apply in this case, as I have a link also. Eastern Washington state people supported Idaho in every way they could, it was many people from two different states who joined forces to rid this combined group of racists who were working together raising all kinds of havoc and terror.

Aryan Nations/KKK Parade