SEM Tycoon

**Frito Pie** · 04-26-2007, 10:58 PM

I'm discouraged and tired as I browse through the threads on this forum especially in this monetization area of all the money making plots going on based on scripts to phish for "friends" to pitch affiilate codes and other assorted money making ventures using myspace or other similar traffic networks.

Commercially, this concerns me that it waters down the network marketing of actual traffic based on niche topics. Ethically my concern is that it will water down the advertising funds so that all income on the internet will appear "gray" or even "black".

I've been online for almost ten years, earning a living and it has all been hard work, day in and day out of doing things right and ethically, treating people with respect, managing domains and traffic appropriately.

Is it just me? Am I the only one that thinks this is not white-hat online money earning?

**Alex Mack** · 04-26-2007, 11:10 PM

I completely agree with you. As I'm very new (to this site, not to the net or making money) I didn't feel it was my place to say anything, but I've been itching to. I am encouraged by your post.

**Conan Stevens** · 04-27-2007, 08:18 AM

It is the same as email spamming in my book. In fact I had so much crap email (notifications) coming from Myspace that I discontinued the emails.

**imported_Cyclops** · 04-27-2007, 12:03 PM

The thing about Myspace is that it's built on Spamming ... here's an excerpt from an article, it's all total fact and can be verified by a bit of googling.
The complete article is here .. myspacepros dot com/forum/showthread.php?t=2715

What's interesting is that most users don't know that Tom Anderson is more of a PR scheme than anything else--the mascot designed to give a friendlier feel to a site created by a marketing company known for viral entertainment websites, pop-up advertising, spam, spyware, and adware.

Most users believe that MySpace started as some kind of fluke--a happy accident that began in Anderson's bedroom or garage--and many still don't wonder, know, or care about the site's real business history and model. Heralded as a haven of DIY self-expression, MySpace was actually created by executives whose backgrounds are anchored in spam and mass marketing, and who are tied to investment scandals. With his almost alternateen good looks, Tom Anderson has served as an exceptionally convincing distraction. The PR campaign is one of MySpace's two strokes of genius, brilliant, but not groundbreaking.

The real genius of MySpace lies in it's re-imagining and repackaging of spam. While most internet users expend time and energy attempting to keep it out, MySpace is spam that they actually invite in.

Internet spam originated as classic, straight-up, unwelcome, in-your-face-and-inbox advertising and marketing. At its worst, it comes from "Nigerian Bankers" and swindlers peddling Viagra, and more likely than not, this early incarnation of spam--we'll call it Spam 1.0--is lurking in your inbox right now. eUniverse, the company that essentially created MySpace, was a pioneer in this field. Headed by CEO, founder, and Chairman Brad Greenspan, eUniverse (now Intermix Media), was a multimillion-dollar marketing and entertainment company known for sites like Skilljam.com, pop-up advertising, unsolicited mass emails, spyware, and the adware behind controversial peer-to-peer file sharing network Kazaa.

**Conan Stevens** · 04-28-2007, 01:19 AM

Good read, I always windered why Myspace made anything of itself. Here's a clickable link The TRUE MySpace story. - MySpacePros

Personally I always called it Tripod Homepages 2 to my geek mates.

I still fail to see the reason it is so popular, I mean is it that hard to make a wordpress or blogger account? Or even dare I say it learn HTML one weekend?

**jesterx** · 05-05-2007, 12:36 AM

rule no 1 - dont spam

rule no 2 - if you have a product tell people on your page that this product will help them with..... ... ...... ... ...

rule no 3 - dont by friends lists, their not targeted

rule no 4 - market inconspicuously and use myspace to gather intrest and get people to sign up to other lists.

obvsiously there are many more rules here but these ones above are the main ones.

**Conan Stevens** · 05-06-2007, 01:14 AM

I still like the idea of "paradigm shift black hat" spamming where you own the network/website so it is now called white hat advertising. Very clever.

**Frito Pie** · 05-06-2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan Stevens

I still like the idea of "paradigm shift black hat" spamming where you own the network/website so it is now called white hat advertising. Very clever.

Can you explain? I'm guessing you are being sarcastic...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesterx

rule no 4 - market inconspicuously and use myspace to gather intrest and get people to sign up to other lists.

You don't seem to get my point.

**collegesucksass** · 05-06-2007, 11:24 AM

good Call

**Mr. Websites** · 05-07-2007, 01:59 AM

I applaud you on the earning you’re making on your own merit, but I oppose your belief that MySpace marketing is immoral. Your disapproval in particular appears to be towards scripts that “phish for ‘friends’ to pitch affiliate codes." This is, where under my judgement, the first conflict surfaces. From my understanding, the act of phishing is definitely criminal, immoral and unethical. But that is only if one is phishing. Now what is my definition of phishing per se? It’s when individuals on MySpace setup fake websites (and promote them) to collect honest members’ login information, or other confidential/personal information. This is definitely fraud, and I agree that this is immoral. From my definition, then, your statement itself conflicts – as you are not phishing for friends but rather attempting to gain their personal/member information.

Leaving that aside, is the concept of setting up accounts, gaining friends and pitching affiliate codes to them wrong? Absolutely not! After all, they wilfully accepted your request to add them as a friend. Moreover, no one forced them to click any affiliate links or thereafter purchase any product(s) from these websites. It was solely their decision to do so. All the MySpace marketers did was connect supply (being the affiliates’ products) with the demand (in this case, the members). As long as they weren’t mislead into purchasing these products with false promises, I do not deem it to be unethical. Consider the countless models on television promoting products. From this analogy, MySpace marketers are operating in a similar fashion. They have ‘models’ on these profiles that are promoting a product.

Nothing unethical here, unless I misunderstood you. Now come on into the most popular subforum, and start earning money ethically. :innocent:

**Frito Pie** · 05-07-2007, 06:06 PM

Spam is unsolicited advertisements.

A friend is not a customer.

Its unethical and shady. I don't care how many people are doing it, it doesn't make it right, ethical or appropriate.

As for earning money ethically, its the only way I do it. Every day. On the internet. Its my business.

**Mr. Websites** · 05-07-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frito Pie

Spam is unsolicited advertisements.

They accepted your request to be a friend before you sent any advertisements; this is not junk mail. I don't think you bothered reading my post carefully.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frito Pie

A friend is not a customer.

Reread what you just wrote and see if it makes any sense. Some of my best customers outside online ventures are in reality my friends. I treat each one of my customers as friends, and it's ideal if my friends become customers.

Your third sentence is subjective, and last is meaningless. I won't view this thread again; your justifications hold no basis in my eyes. Good luck in your future endeavours!

**Frito Pie** · 05-07-2007, 07:02 PM

If a friend of mine in real life sends me advertisements for products, its spam. Its unsolicited.

You aren't going to view this thread because its hit a nerve. You want to justify sending spam to people who have said "YES" to being a friend.

Your point would be justified IF you were requesting to all these people to send them advertisements and affiliate codes. ANd if they they said: Yes, you can send me advertisements, I give you permission: This would be fine and ethical.

But this isn't the case. Your tactics are shady and unethical.

**Slevin** · 05-07-2007, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frito Pie

If a friend of mine in real life sends me advertisements for products, its spam. Its unsolicited

I'm sorry but thats wrong. I dont know what your interests are, but friends say to me constantly i must by x album or get tickets to whatever, it is exactly the same thing, except for with myspace you miss out the whole "friend" bit, and just sell ^^.

Anyway i do think people should start moving out of myspace, its not sustainable. But as long as your not phishing, i dont see anything wrong with it

**Mike** · 05-07-2007, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frito Pie

Is it just me? Am I the only one that thinks this is not white-hat online money earning?

I am right there with you. All the myspace scamming and other related schemes are very annoying.

**wild wisconsin** · 05-08-2007, 12:18 AM

Myspace is great for Networking...a bit different from spaming.
but from all the spaming, Networking, or even speaking
professionally over myspace is a pain now...

**Alex Mack** · 05-08-2007, 03:22 PM

I agree with Frito Pie and Mike, it's unethical and unpleasant.

**GeorgeB** · 05-09-2007, 12:03 AM

FritoPie, there are both whitehat and grey/blackhat marketers on myspace. Perhaps that's where the blame for the admitted confusion and frustration you have with it lies. There are PLENTY of whitehat methods to make money from myspace traffic. And check this out... you can spam myspace so to speak without actually technically "SPAMMING" it.

For example: owners of myspace resource or comment graphics sites often send thousands of comment messages a day to their friends list. Some are funny, cute, entertaining, or just say hi. They include a brief friendly message and a glitter or normal graphic iamge to carry the point. Myspace users love gettign comments like these and welcome them. I'd have to do some digging but i can give you a decent estimate on how many of my comments I send where the user requires approval before posting get approved but I can tell you it's the VAST majority.

It's win win because I get advertising for my service (free myspace graphics and layouts etc) and the users get something that makes them smile.

Another issue I see in your statement is the use of white/black/grey hat at all. The hats are a term generally accepted (In this context) as describing search engine marketing techniques and you are trying to apply it to the bubble mircrocosm that is myspace. But I get your point. Bad guys vs good guys got it. But to use it in this context would mean you'd have to define it just like it was defined when it made the leap from just describing hackers. i.e. What is blackhat myspace marketing? What rules does it break other than myspace's TOS? etc etc.

Quote:

Commercially, this concerns me that it waters down the network marketing of actual traffic based on niche topics. Ethically my concern is that it will water down the advertising funds so that all income on the internet will appear "gray" or even "black".

Actually we're talking 2 seperate advertising pools. The only people advertising directly on myspace (and drawing revenue from it) are doing it to to promote affiliate ads of some sort. Entirely different advertising pool from YPN, adsense, CPM, or direct ad sales.

So I think the dillution argument is a bit unfounded because by virtue of what I've just explained to you myspace marketing doesn't affect the average site owner at all.

The only others advertising on myspace are the ones trying to drive traffic to their sites just like you are. They've just found yet another effective way of doing it. Now whether they abuse that is a different story but even then that's between them and myspace and shouldn't concern the general webmaster community IMO.

**Frito Pie** · 05-09-2007, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

Now whether they abuse that is a different story but even then that's between them and myspace and shouldn't concern the general webmaster community IMO.

This is akin to: If illegal immigrants aren't hurting me personally, I shouldn't have a concern.

We all have a stake in how business is conducted on and offline and whether it is ethical or not. Whether it affects us directly or indirectly, it affects us.

Unethical webmasters whether in SEO or in revenue generating spam practices have an effect on us all.

**GeorgeB** · 05-09-2007, 12:20 AM

OK but what I just described (the myspace resource site owners example) isn't unethical.

My point was merely to point out that the majority of what you are considering black hat is affiliate marketing. Affiliate marketers don't care about the users. They just want to drive as much traffic as possible to an aff offer and convert them. End of story. So yes they will use any and all means/methods to get visitors. This isn't just on myspace they've been doing it in search engines for years. Nothing new there.

And again my point is, you're saying it affects us but, I just explained to you how it doesn't. So I guess what I'm asking is how do you think it does?