SEO Tycoon

**Learning Newbie** · 10-09-2007, 07:33 PM

You might or might not know we have a SEO Marketplace Forum for freelancers and for people looking for an SEO. Hopefully you know most SEO Experts deserve a Darwin Award. We're trying to not let honest people get scammed.

Could everyone take a moment out to read this thread? I'm gonna sticky it, and maybe close it but I'm gonna keep thinking about that. If you have any corrections, please post them here and I'll edit the post. Same with new stuff that should be added.

If you legitimately think something is in question and people need to be aware of both sides then you can reply to that post. The idea is we don't want to confuse or overwhelm people who are hiring someone else because they don't know enough to do it themself or choose the right firm to hire.

Your help is much appreciated, and this is the definition of what talkupation will be given for as thanks. Hopefully not just by me.

**ADAM Web Design** · 10-09-2007, 08:21 PM

I think this is a long-overdue idea. It's about time people learned what to look for and how to look for it. For the most part, this is exactly what I would have said.

I'd adjust #1) to say "Please provide as much information as possible pertaining to your goals: increased sales, more leads, 50% more traffic, etc." Reword as you see fit, but rather than focus on the "what do I think I want", focus on the goals and let the SEOs determine how to reach those goals. Good SEOs will understand which services fit best, and most SEO customers probably won't.

It's like going into a car mechanic and thinking you need a new muffler because you heard your brakes squealing. Give the mechanic the problem and the goal, and let the mechanic diagnose from there.

I'd also expand on the last point: #5) PageRank and link building aren't how pages rank", followed by an explanation of some of the other factors.

And one to add: #6) Don't be afraid to ask questions, and be prepared to do as much homework as possible to find out what you want. (Ask questions about quotes, ask other people if quotes are fair value, etc.)

Great idea, though, like I said. Way overdue.

**vangogh** · 10-09-2007, 08:38 PM

It is a good idea. A couple of comments though.

While I agree you shouldn't trust the SEOs who are contacting you it's not fair to judge them on the seo of their sites. I say this because if you're hiring an SEO you may not understand seo enough to judge how well they did or didn't optimize. Most people will make the judgment based on how well the site ranks for 'seo' or 'search engine optimization'

Only 10 pages can rank on the 1st page for either term, but there are certainly more good SEOs than that.

I'm also leery of saying you have to do what Google says. I think the guidelines are good to read, but Google is not completely honest in everything they say. A good SEO will help your site with the big picture that is marketing. There may be things good for your site that go against a Google guideline. That may mean less traffic from Google, but it could also mean more traffic in general and even more at the other search engines.

**scorpionagency** · 11:59 PM

some may feel different & think it's not needed, However i would suggest encouraging the potential client seeking an SEO consultant to at least ask for references.

If a consultant is good, he/she should at least have a few testimonials or clients willing to to attest to their good work... Maybe even some sort of portfolio.

Granted, I understand that due to a few Non-compete - Non-disclosure & Confidentiality laws stipulated in the client / consultant contract it my not be possible to produce any track record while still under the binding statutes of limitations.

I just think it's good measure to ask...

**gringo** · 10-10-2007, 05:19 AM

It's a good idea John.

I think a potential buyer should ask for an itemised list of tasks the SEO is going to perform (maybe, but not necessarily, with a breakdown of costs to this level). Further to what Adam said about not being afraid to ask questions, the buyer can then ask "why are you doing this?" or "is this necessary?".

Just thinking aloud, but would it be a good idea to post a sample contract? I'm not sure myself, need to think more about it.

**usearchme** · 10-10-2007, 07:46 AM

Hi there

Its a great idea, i have read your thread which is quite good, gives u some things to look out for, hard to say what you could add, the main reason i had problems with SEO, is i fell for a lot of the SEO myths, so maybe as a separate post you could do a list of these to look out for.

Woc

**chrishirst** · 10-10-2007, 09:34 AM

Yep Good post, and agree with the comments here ( up to this point

)

Steve's closing comment is worth reiterating as well, with some added emphasis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

'm also leery of saying you have to do what Google says. I think the guidelines are good to read, but Google is not completely honest in everything they say. A good SEO will help your site with the big picture that is marketing. There may be things good for your site that go against a Google guideline. That may mean less traffic from Google, but it could also mean more traffic in general and even more at the other search engines.

The Google guidelines are just that, guidelines. Not hard and fast rules to live by.
Read them, understand them and more importantly understand what they DON'T say in some cases.
The upshot is don't do anything to "game" the algo and you will be pretty much Ok.

John, Close that thread and link this in as the comment thread.

**Douglife** · 10-10-2007, 09:50 AM

Its sooo early in the morning! I love you guys. If I were Britney Spears, and my SEO career was failing similar to her entertaining career, I'd be saying "Gimme Gimme, Gimme Gimmie, MORE!"

**Learning Newbie** · 10-10-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

I'm also leery of saying you have to do what Google says. I think the guidelines are good to read, but Google is not completely honest in everything they say. A good SEO will help your site with the big picture that is marketing. There may be things good for your site that go against a Google guideline. That may mean less traffic from Google, but it could also mean more traffic in general and even more at the other search engines.

This is a good point. Can you help mold it into a flushed out bullet point? The main idea I was going for is that so many SEO EXPERTs will do the cheap trick stuff like white text on a white background, massive link exchanges or link farming, and all that, only to get their client punished or even banned in Google.

Not trying to say "you have to do everything Google tells you" but you have to be aware of what Google demands so you can know if you're paying someone to put you in violation. And you have to weigh if it makes sense in any given case to break the guideline (which is only that) or not on your long term goals. That's a conversation a good SEO should help you brainstorm, but it's not something to take lightly, and it's something you have to know about before it happens. Sometimes it's appropriate with all the gains, but there can be heavy costs, so if you don't get a strong benefit.

Only, that's a mouthful. I want people to have all the info they need, but I also don't want to over whelm people with a huge never ending list.

**vangogh** · 10-10-2007, 06:01 PM

How about:

Ask what they plan to do. You don't need every little detail but read Google's webmaster guidelines so you know what Google recommends to do and not to do. You don't need to follow Google's guidelines blindly, but understand the potential consequences of not following the guidelines and assess if the risk is worth it.

It's you that will be held accountable for what happens on your site and not your SEO firm.

**Learning Newbie** · 10-10-2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishirst

John, Close that thread and link this in as the comment thread.

I did exactly that! I think the mods and admins should feel free to correct anything without having to debate it here, but closing it at least for now will keep the DVD Addictz from corrupting the thread with crummy advice.

I also updated it with some of the advice in this thread. I'm thinking on how to incorporate some of the harder stuff.

Thanks, everyone! I've been giving reputation points to those who've helped everyone here. You can only give 5 people a day, so that goes slowly, especially when people don't stop saying clever things in other threads just cause of this one.

**Learning Newbie** · 10-11-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usearchme

Hi there

Its a great idea, i have read your thread which is quite good, gives u some things to look out for, hard to say what you could add, the main reason i had problems with SEO, is i fell for a lot of the SEO myths, so maybe as a separate post you could do a list of these to look out for.

Woc

I think this is a fantastic idea!

**ADAM Web Design** · 10-11-2007, 06:50 PM

As do I. I'm just not sure how often it would get read (if ever). Of course, if one person reads it and doesn't fall for one scam, it's worth it.

**Learning Newbie** · 10-11-2007, 07:03 PM

Today I'm seeing (or at least noticing) an ad that says to beware of SEO scams, and to visit some SEO company for warning you. I think that's great, but it's a testament to how valuable this forum is if we can all get the same thing for free.