SEO Tycoon

**downliner** · 11-13-2007, 09:26 AM

I've tried running a Google search but couldn't find much information on the subject. I'm curious about whether including titles in links helps with SEO at all?

I'm not expecting them to have a great effect, and understand that the titles are mainly for the users experience. Still, if someone can let me know how advantageous it is to use them I'd be greatful.

Example : <a href="http://www.google.com" title="a good search engine">

One of the sites I manage is listed on page two out of 119million results for our main keyword in Google. I'm wanting to push the site onto page 1 so if that means adding titles to all of the links on our pages then I'll do it

Many thanks

**gringo** · 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downliner

I've tried running a Google search but couldn't find much information on the subject.

Why don't you try testing it? To save you the few minutes it would take, I can tell you the results of my testing.

The title attribute has no effect (or had no effect a year ago) on ranking in the big 3 search engines.

If you get other questions like this, you really should consider testing it yourself. It will save you from getting confused by the inevitable and contradictory rubbish that gets spouted by a lot of self titled and uninformed SEO gurus out there

EDIT: But you should still use the title attribute if you think it will help your visitors.

**downliner** · 11-13-2007, 10:16 AM

Thanks for the reply Gringo.

I do intend on applying the test to the site but figured I could ask here as I would trust the advice of some of the regulars who have no doubt looked into the subject previously and found the answer.

If someone reputable like adam or hirst replied to say that it would actually have a negative effect on our rankings then I would trust there advice not to start throwing titles all over the place

The site I'm managing is making a steady profit through daily sales, but it is so frustrating being on Page 2 of the Google Search Results. I feel that if I can just push it up a few more positions the sales would no doubt increase dramatically.

With so many sites competing for our keyword we're pleased with the current result, was just hoping that including "titles" in our links might have been the magic trick we needed to push the site higher.

Looks like I'll have to invest in one of those PR highlighters adam was flogging

Thanks

**corlock** · 11-13-2007, 12:33 PM

I just want to share about my experience on using title attributes on links...
its true that it has no effect at all in the field of SEO, but it is surely beneficial to your visitors for added information on where is their going to go once a link has been clicked. of course, it depends on what text you will input in it. its better be helpful of course.

**Learning Newbie** · 11-13-2007, 01:53 PM

What's in the title attribute will help the page the link is on or coming from. The search engine sees that as just more text on the page, just like an alt attribute, or a noscript tag.

**ADAM Web Design** · 11-13-2007, 02:54 PM

My thoughts have pretty well been covered. If you need to resort to a trick like this to get referral traffic, it won't ultimately benefit you. Besides, you're also rank checking, which is a pointless exercise to begin with simply because of the sheer size of Google and the number of different datasets they operate with.

My suggestion to you would be to keep improving your site rather than worry about this type of thing. If you're seeing it at page 2 on one server, then it's not that far off page 1 on the same server. You've come most of the way...don't sell yourself out with stupid pet tricks.

**scorpionagency** · 11-13-2007, 03:46 PM

This May or may not be any consolation seeing that I haven't done any actual calculated testing on the Title attribute myself as of yet. However, I have made it a habit to ALWAYS add the Title="" attribute into hyper text & Both the Title="" & Alt="" Attributes in any images published on a page.

For a hyper text Title, if nothing else it extends on the reasoning of the text that was hyperlinked & aids in a better description of the site a blind person is about to visit.

For images, The Title serves the same purpose as above & in addition, the Alt text is the text that appears when the image doesn't.

Whether or not the benefits of the Title attribute have any baring on the overall algorithmic calculations is beyond me at this point until further testing.

It's my opinion that it can't Hurt as long you use the title attribute as a supporting description to the text already linked.

At any rate, I wish you the best & if you do conduct any research on this area before I get to it, please let me know your results.

**agent0** · 11-13-2007, 04:19 PM

They do.

Here are other the parts of a webpage which could use some keywords to help boost SEO:

Title
Content
Side Bar/ Menu
Footer
Anchor Text
Alt Tags

**ADAM Web Design** · 09:23 PM

First of all, it's alt ATTRIBUTES. A-t-t-r-i-b-u-t-e-s. Not tags. Attributes.

Second, they were intended to provide a textual content alternative for those individuals and computer programs that couldn't accurately see the images for what they are. They were never intended for SEO; <snip>

You don't just "put keywords in somewhere to boost SEO", either. That was 1997. We're in 2007 now.

**scorpionagency** · 06:53 PM

I can see your point of view ADAM - if it is abused, however I must point out an opposing side.

Let's say you hyperlink (Anchor) the text "Morning Glory" to point to a site. As a few of us may already be thinking, Morning Glory can have a few different meanings (E.g. A beautiful Morning, A Beautiful Woman, A religious statement, Happy waking up, Just took my morning dump, etc..)

The title attribute allows the placement of a more detailed title description for the general textual reference that was linked. Otherwise we may have several people going to the site or page for the wrong reasons (That could also be construed as deceptive). The descriptive title aids in telling the person (NOT the engine) what the link is about so that they can make an educated decision on whether to visit it or not simply by hovering over the hyper linked text & reading the title box that appears describing the page it points to.

If Key word stuffing tactics are used, I can see your point in the generalized dumbass assessment. There are 2 sides to this coin & possibly a fine line between the 2.

I much prefer to add the title & alt attributes to provide better instruction & description to visitors of my site (NOT the engines).

Though I am not totally innocent, I have at times used Keywords in my title descriptions as well when stating what the referred page is about.

**Learning Newbie** · 11-13-2007, 05:47 PM

Text in the alt and title attributes of links, images, and other things on the page, are on the page they're on, they aren't assumed as part of any page being linked to. It's true that they could be used to pass more information in a link, for example "Morning Glory" could be a tea or a reference to LSD, but I've never seen anything to suggest any search engine looks to these attributes for more information about a link.

What's in the title attribute of part of a page shows up as tooltip text in standards compliant browsers, the way alternate text does in Internet Explorer. It something a user might see on the page, but isn't all that likely to, and probably isn't that important. Where the <title> tag is heavily weighted, the title attribute is got to be just the opposite. Noticed, but barely there.

Which points out the irony. If you're "building links" on a different site and putting your keywords into the title and alt attributes, you're making that page come up somewhere for those keywords, not yours that's being linked to.

**scorpionagency** · 11-13-2007, 06:59 PM

I suppose I am looking at it more along the lines of On-page optimizing for the Viewers rather than the On-page Optimizing for the Engines aspects.

Both playing a roll in web page or websites success rates, right along with on-page monetization.

Both points for Engines & Viewers are accurate - It boils down to the balancing of the 2, finding a happy medium in order to please both the viewer & the engine.

**chrishirst** · 11-13-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agent0

They do.

They don't. Not one tiny little iota

Quote:

Originally Posted by agent0

Here are other the parts of a webpage which could use some keywords to help boost SEO:

Title
Content
Side Bar/ Menu
Footer
Anchor Text
Alt Tags

Good Grief! Penfold!

You mean use keywords in the page content

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

First of all, it's alt ATTRIBUTES. A-t-t-r-i-b-u-t-e-s. Not tags. Attributes.

Thank you, saved me some

**Learning Newbie** · 11-13-2007, 08:29 PM

Finding a balance is important.

But I'm reading the question as "Does the title attribute of a hyperlink help with off page SEO?" I think the answer to that question is no.

**downliner** · 06:37 AM

Thanks for all the replies and feedback on the subject

The title attributes I was applying to my links were all internal site links. I haven't resorted to setting up one of those ever successful mini-sites stuffed with keywords and pointing to my real homepage just yet.

I carried out the test yesterday and added appropriate title attributes to all of the links on my sites main menu. A Google search this morning brought my site up at No. 9 on Page 1

I realise not everyone will see the same results as myself but knowing that I can get onto the first page for such a large market is a real confidence boost. I'll just have to continue working on developing the site further (Im moving to a dedicated server today, and adding live customer support - both seem to be a step in the right direction I feel).

I doubt the title attributes helped move the site up in rankings, not that I plan on removing them now of course, but after sitting on Page 2 for months on end I find it curious that on the day I post here asking for help its the same day I finally see the site listed higher.

I've always built the site from the point of view of a customer, adding features that I would expect to see or that I believe would be useful. My posting here yesterday wasn't an attempt to find some cheap SEO trick for boosting our rankings, just a momentary lapse on my behalf caused by months of frustration towards Google

Thanks for all the advice, not just today but over the last few months too. I've picked up some great tips here and following them has really improved both our website and our business.

Many thanks,
Will

**microtekblue** · 11-20-2007, 09:48 PM

<a href="http://www.google.com" title="a good search engine">

That code is not a valid html code.

What is that?

Are you talking about an Anchor link?

Then it would look like this:
<a href="http://www.google.com">a good search engine</a>

**chrishirst** · 11-21-2007, 03:17 AM

Of course using a title attribute on an anchor element is valid HTML. IN FACT your pages wouldn't pass the accessibility validators without a title attribute.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/...tml#adef-title

**microtekblue** · 11-21-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishirst

Of course using a title attribute on an anchor element is valid HTML. IN FACT your pages wouldn't pass the accessibility validators without a title attribute.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/...tml#adef-title

ahhh ok now i remember...its been a while since i finished school lol...i forgot about these little attributes.

thanks for clearing me up.

**alemcherry** · 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by microtekblue

<a href="http://www.google.com" title="a good search engine">

That code is not a valid html code.

What is that?

Are you talking about an Anchor link?

Then it would look like this:
<a href="http://www.google.com">a good search engine</a>

< removed > He was showing just a part of the code. ofcourse he is going to have an appropriate anchor text!

**Learning Newbie** · 11-28-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downliner

I doubt the title attributes helped move the site up in rankings, not that I plan on removing them now of course, but after sitting on Page 2 for months on end I find it curious that on the day I post here asking for help its the same day I finally see the site listed higher.

Congratulations, and enjoy your success!

But it's good to see solid critical thinking skills, and the ability to sort out cause and effect. You're right, adding the title attributes was probably part but not all of what got you on the first page. Being able to recognize that, and continue doing all the other things that have contributed to your success, is why you'll be in good shape tomorrow, next month, and next year. But having that skill is probably what got you on Page 1 in the first place.