SEO Tycoon

**cheveirtua** · 12-13-2007, 01:40 PM

Is it true that social networks like Myspace and Social bookmarking service like del.icio.us (did i spell that right?) can help boost your traffic and improve search engine rankings?

Do you use tools to achieve that. If so, could you share some insights...

**opticbyte** · 12-13-2007, 02:04 PM

In my experience they do help BUT those sites are not designed to be used for promotion and marketing. Doing so can very easily get you banned. Tread lightly.

**chesca** · 12-13-2007, 03:45 PM

based on my experience, i got most of my traffic from social bookmarking like Digg and stumbleupon..

**chrishirst** · 12-13-2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

i got most of my traffic from social bookmarking like Digg and stumbleupon

How about sales & conversions?

**CSS4Life** · 12-13-2007, 07:23 PM

Social bookmarking sites can be very useful if your web site is running a blog with tutorials etc. on and these (not the main site) are submitted to the bookmarking service. It can be very beneficial for your company reputation if you've gone unique useful content like this and may actually create sales - you'll look like you know what you are talking about.

However, neither was created for business purposes. People using both are usually NOT looking to purchase products - they tend to simply be looking round for something good - pictures, a funny blog article etc. Spamming these places with your business web site is probably not a good idea unless you run a web site which provides visitors with tutorials or whatever that people will find interesting.

**vangogh** · 12-13-2007, 09:34 PM

Christiene social networks and social bookmarking sites can be a good way to market yourself. Each site is different and will have somewhat different rules.

The basic idea is to find social media sites that you like and that are interested in the subject of your site. The best way to determine which sites meet those requirements is to spend some time using the sites and getting to know the community.

I like to sign up with an account to make sure I get the username I want and then start exploring the site.

When you find sites you like and think make a good fit for you site you should participate on the site. If it's a bookmarking site like del.icio.us then you should bookmark web pages you think are really good. I use del.icio.us as an extension of the bookmarks in my browser.

Also you'll need to create content that the other people on the social site are likely to find interesting. For example the community on Digg is generally pro Apple and Linux and anti Microsoft. Your content stands a better chance of being liked on Digg if it as pro Apple and Linux.

Ideally other people will like your content and submit it to the appropriate site. You can help that along by adding social bookmarking icons on your site to remind people to submit your content if they like it.

As you build a strong profile on the site (by participating and adding value to the community) other members should become interested in you and visit your profile and your site (assuming you link to it from your profile).

There's certainly more to it than that and I haven't filled in the details, but the gist is build great content, join and participate in sites that are more likely to be interested in that content, get your content submitted.

**coolslko** · 12-14-2007, 03:41 AM

Not sure about ranking but they help to increase traffic a lot to your site.

**wokaka** · 12-14-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheveirtua

Is it true that social networks like Myspace and Social bookmarking service like del.icio.us (did i spell that right?) can help boost your traffic and improve search engine rankings?

Do you use tools to achieve that. If so, could you share some insights...

They will help if you can use it properly.

**zeruel** · 12-17-2007, 02:26 AM

bookmarkings can really get you some traffic... but it won't give you enough conversions from that traffic... specially in digg...

**jamestl2** · 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheveirtua

Is it true that social networks like Myspace and Social bookmarking service like del.icio.us (did i spell that right?) can help boost your traffic

Yes, but as chrishirst said, it probably won't convert

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheveirtua

and improve search engine rankings?

No

**Learning Newbie** · 12-19-2007, 08:17 PM

James picked up on something that should have been covered a long time ago. Pretty much any social bookmark site worth its salt nofollows it's links. That disables them for search engines, it's a big red sign that says "hey, I didn't make this, I don't know where it goes, and I don't vouch for it - oh, it may be paid, too."

Yeah, that's not the original meaning for nofollow, but search engines (specially Google) have sort of changed the meaning over time. And in response, web sites use nofollow like the Nazis at Nuremberg. "I was only following orders." What that means is a lot of people think you can link to the nastiest, sleaziest, scam site and not get any penalty if you nofollow that link. Some webmasters even link to sites that are banned in Google or should be with nofollow, inside an article explaining why the site is a scam. So the links that come out of social sites are wothless in SEO terms.

Course people say they can send oodles of traffic. People have already done a better job explaining that than I can. I just wanted to lend my agreement to what James said, because he speaks the truth.

**ADAM Web Design** · 12-19-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishirst

How about sales & conversions?

it's a scientifically proven fact that StumbleUpon and Digg users are huge fans of Classic TV Shows on DVD, and will visit blogspot.com regularly to read their favourite Beverly Hills 90210 DVD blogs and buy, buy, buy! Never question the TV/DVD Addicts logic. It's sacrilege.

Seriously, haven't you TV/DVD Addicts noticed that every time you come up with some stupid "marketing technique" that one of Hirst or I inevitably shows what a bunch of mindless SEO following lemmings you guys are? There's a hint here that you should really be picking up on.

Christiene, it's untrue from a direct point of view, but can be true from an indirect point of view (can being the operative word here). If you build something that's actually worthy of social bookmarking traffic, then social media users will often link to your site on other sites (e.g. blogs, forums, etc.) in an organic fashion, which in turn will often have some SEO benefits.

The problem with this question is that you're asking it as if these sites are supposed to be a magic SEO bullet. This usually implies that you have other issues with your site such that looking for answers like this become necessary.

It's not that affiliate hyperlink in your signature, is it? If it is...your plan won't work.

**vangogh** · 08:45 PM

John and James I think you're missing something when it comes to social media sites. The idea isn't that the link on the social site itself is a great link to have. The idea is that if your content does well and gets in front of enough people it leads to links from some of those people in the weeks following.

Social media is less about any direct benefit and more about indirect benefits.

You build a strong profile you make new friends who are more likely to promote you and your content. If your profile gets strong enough you build brand awareness. Someone finds your site and just when they're deciding whether to buy something they catch your name and realize you're the same person who bookmarks great posts at del.icio.us. Instant trust.

When your content does make the front page of a site the traffic may not lead to much, but often links follow a few weeks behind the traffic. I think on average content making it to the front page of Digg gets over 100 links. Forbes recently mentioned the number as 129 links.

Also the links are quite natural since you haven't asked for them directly. They come with different anchor text from a variety of sites. Isn't that exactly what you'd advise. Create good content and the people who like that content will link to it? Social media is just facilitating that.

Adam is right. It's not an seo bullet. Some people will see it that way and attempt to manipulate the system. Others will participate in the sites the way they were intended to be used. And there will be people doing either that will find a way to make it work and people who don't.

**Learning Newbie** · 12-19-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

John and James I think you're missing something when it comes to social media sites. The idea isn't that the link on the social site itself is a great link to have. The idea is that if your content does well and gets in front of enough people it leads to links from some of those people in the weeks following.

I have to disagree, and even knowing it sounds like nitpickers r us.

The idea of social media sites is you can be social with people who have the same interest, see lots of pictures of young women in small bikinis, and read about why Windows is a worser operating system than the Post Office.

What that's an important difference is that it pretty much is the formula predicting what sites are gonna be popular on social media. Any "for sale" sign will get blown over in the wind. Project Gutenberg is probably one of those sites that has 38,000 Diggs.

**seolman** · 12-19-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

it's a scientifically proven fact that StumbleUpon and Digg users are huge fans of Classic TV Shows on DVD, and will visit blogspot.com regularly to read their favourite Beverly Hills 90210 DVD blogs and buy, buy, buy! Never question the TV/DVD Addicts logic. It's sacrilege.

I had no idea! I smell an SFA in my future...

**jamestl2** · 12-19-2007, 09:08 PM

Thanks for expanding on my "No", John

No one's denying the impact Social Bookmarking can have on our sites, Steven, but I still think your confusing SEO with SMO. Everything you mentioned describes Social Media Optimization, which is a form of Search Engine Marketing, not Search Engine Optimization.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

If you build something that's actually worthy of social bookmarking traffic, then social media users will often link to your site on other sites (e.g. blogs, forums, etc.) in an organic fashion, which in turn will often have some SEO benefits.

This point here deserves special attention. The actual nofollow links gained from bookmarking sites themselves won't have much impact on search engines, but it can increase site visibility and traffic, which can in-turn help SEO (as other non-media sites may look at it as a valuable page).

**vangogh** · 12-20-2007, 11:35 PM

I'm not confusing SEO and SMO at all, though I prefer to call it social media marketing instead of optimization. Marketing isn't a dirty word and it's ok to market yourself through something that might not have been first intended as marketing vehicle.

You can build all the great stuff you want, but if you never tell anyone about it it's unlikely they're just going to find it. Sure they might in a long time, but marketing is about spreading the word you exist.

There are indirect seo benefits to social media marketing. James the quote of Adam's you pulled is what I was trying to say. You can get indirect seo benefits. I agree you need to have something worthy. It all starts with good content. But it takes more than just having good content. You still need to promote that content.

**jamestl2** · 12-21-2007, 12:29 AM

I'll admit I worded that kind of funny :P.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamestl2

No

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

John and James I think you're missing something when it comes to social media sites. The idea isn't that the link on the social site itself is a great link to have.

What I thought you were saying here is that my "no" to improving SERP's with actual, physical bookmarking links, was *actual* SEO, and you were saying John and I thought this is what we weren't saying.

Does that sound better? Or did I just confuse it more

.

**vangogh** · 12-21-2007, 01:05 AM

I think I understand now. Or maybe I'm so confused that I came back around to understanding.

I agree that the actual links on most social bookmarking sites are nofollowed and so not worth what many think when it comes to direct seo. Although not every site uses nofollows and not every search engine pays attention to nofollows. Google claims they do, but I've seen sites rank very well for fairly competitive terms that were only used in nofollow links (mostly blog comments). There are many who question if Google is being completely honest in not following nofollows.

My point though, was that there are indirect seo benefits. Say your content makes the front page of Digg. The link you get from them isn't important and most of the traffic visits and leaves nearly as quickly as it came. And since we're talking Digg they leave a lot of pointless comments on the submission thread at Digg.

None of the above has given you any seo benefit. But some of the people who visited quickly may end up linking to your content later. And the Digg page mentioning your content probably ends up ranking very well for something. People searching for pages to link to may find it and subsequently link to your post.

Those links will provide seo benefit. So while I agree you're not getting any direct benefit when it comes to search engines if your content is bookmarked, the act of getting your content in front of people who otherwise wouldn't see it can indirectly lead to seo benefit.

**jamestl2** · 12-21-2007, 01:27 AM

Those are good points, Steven.

I think the distinguishment to make is that the links are alright for SEO *Benefit* not SEO al by itself.

An analogy I also like to use is comparing SMO, bookmarking, etc. with blog carnivals. It's like "open mike night" at the comedy club, and you are giving others a chance to hear your stuff. The carnivals themselves can give your site poweful links (if the carnival owners choose to), and similar blogs can network with each other in the process.

In retrospect it isn't the networking link itself that's important, it's the site owners and visitors alike who see the link.