SEO Tycoon

**Learning Newbie** · 01-15-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johneva

Not all of us work in the ways your discribing I carnt belive the mods of the forum are allowing this to go on let alone encouraging it, why have an SEO forum if this is your opinion of SEO?

This thread shouldn't offend anybody who doesn't work in the ways being described (like 150 Digg and Reddit accounts).

SEO is a very complicated subject matter, with a lot of educated guess work involved, and a lot of bad information available. This makes it very easy for a person to have no idea if they're being told good advice or bad. By pointing out the bad advice, and in a humorous way people are more likely to remember, it (1) helps newbies and (2) gives people who advise toward long term and sustainable ways to market a web site a chuckle.

**aschwa** · 01-15-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

(like 150 Digg and Reddit accounts).

To be fair, not all of those are mine. A number of them belong to friends of mine, and then I go on my instant messaging client and message those friends with a message that triggers a script that causes them to Digg and, err, Redd whatever submission I want them to.

Anyway, what about my fee?! Is that reasonable?

**ADAM Web Design** · 01-15-2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johneva

Thing is though fella why are you coming in this forum just to annoy people who do SEO/SEM?

Not all of us work in the ways your discribing I carnt belive the mods of the forum are allowing this to go on let alone encouraging it, why have an SEO forum if this is your opinion of SEO?

This thread is a complete joke and should have been trashed long ago if is simpley flaming, its just begging for an argument.

I think the problem here is something I've pointed out earlier. Some people use humor and parody to make a deeper point. Alan did a brilliant job of it. Someone out there somewhere will realize that the tactics Alan is describing are silly and will eventually learn how to market a website properly, and that justifies the means IMHO.

Different people learn in different ways, and comedic observation is one of them.

**chrishirst** · 01-15-2008, 08:46 PM

The job of a moderator is not simply to "pull" threads that appear to be controversial or appear to be "not in keeping". It's to assist in the growth of the forum as well, and if that means allowing threads that some may consider "wrong" then so be it.

I will say that my first instinct on the first post was to delete the thread, and it was a judgement call on whether the post was meant as a genuine question or was intended to start a discussion process. I think I made the right call on leaving it and monitoring the posts for any escalation into a "flame war".

As Adam says some lessons are best taught with the use of humour and parody, we can lecture, criticise and explain things in minute detail, but sometimes a message is best put over with a little sarcasm, some wit and a comedy "sketch".

It is difficult to generate the right sense of intent in forum posts, but incredibly easy to "take it the wrong way"

and when you say

Quote:

This thread is a complete joke

You have hit the nail right on the head.

**seolman** · 01-19-2008, 12:11 AM

I'm sorry...but being one of the more serious minded posters in this forum I must confess I am SHOCKED and PLEASED the thread went on as long as it did. Good call Chrishurst... I would have TP'd you but was restricted by oppressive TP controlling megalomaniac Moderators.

**ADAM Web Design** · 01-19-2008, 02:06 AM

By the way, Alan, I have some seriously bad news as it pertains to your SEO company efforts. This company seems to be poised to dominate the search market for years to come. I hear mass transit in the San Fernando Valley will expand by 25% over the next 3 years.

**aschwa** · 01-19-2008, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

By the way, Alan, I have some seriously bad news as it pertains to your SEO company efforts. This company seems to be poised to dominate the search market for years to come. I hear mass transit in the San Fernando Valley will expand by 25% over the next 3 years.

Okay, I see they charge $1,327.48 per hour, so I will probably have to raise my rates because in my quote I said $2500/keyword, but I think it will take me more than a couple hours per keyword. Also, these guys don't look very whitehat to me, so I will maybe charge $1500 per hour. My work comes with a guarantee, but you have to explicitly ask me what the guarantee is.

**jigolo** · 01-20-2008, 09:17 AM

That is just not every easy to make an SEO comnay..

**jermeyd** · 01-20-2008, 11:04 AM

Well, if you know buzz about SEO, tell us 5 most SEO mistakes that new SEO makes?
Let the people judge you skill level.

Regards

**ADAM Web Design** · 01-20-2008, 03:56 PM

1) Obsessing over PageRank and inbound links when it's only one part of the formula. Subset mistakes include forum link dropping, link exchange, participating in co-op ad networks, buying links for SEO purposes, etc.

One could easily find five mistakes most new SEOs make just by focusing on this factor alone, but that's too easy.

2) Creating landing pages for no specific reason other than to try and pick up certain keywords/phrases.

3) Applying SEO tactics that detract from the user experience.

4) Listening to vested-interest so-called A-listers who often have gotten some of their own sites banned from search engines and/or who cater to blackhat SEO advertisers.

5) Repeating ad nauseam the things that they've "learned" (i.e. read) from other so-called SEOs without either fully considering the ramifications of the advice or battle-testing the advice themselves and understanding the consequences.

Honorable mention: claiming to be an SEO while possessing the grammar skills of a second-grader. This one never ceases to amuse me.

**ADAM Web Design** · 01-20-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aschwa

Okay, I see they charge $1,327.48 per hour, so I will probably have to raise my rates because in my quote I said $2500/keyword, but I think it will take me more than a couple hours per keyword. Also, these guys don't look very whitehat to me, so I will maybe charge $1500 per hour. My work comes with a guarantee, but you have to explicitly ask me what the guarantee is.

It's good to hide your guarantee, because that way you can customize it to your customer's specifications. I believe that entitles you to an extra $250 per hour because it's custom work. Custom work is always harder because you might have to open your eyes and/or turn off your The Simpsons in the background long enough to think.

I think those guys are whitehat, though. They didn't say they're blackhat, so they must be whitehat.

**OSWebMaster** · 01-20-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

johneva:
Social Media = SEO 2.0.

Hmmm -

Seems you've mixed your monikers here. Social media includes blogs, bulletin boards (like this one), and all of the mobile media capabilities, among other things. Sometimes these are honest endeavors. SEO 2.0, is an interesting term -- did you coin it? I guess you are suggesting that ALL SEO practitioners use Social Media -- the wrong way?

Maybe you could site a number of premises that led you to that conclusion?

Scott

**aschwa** · 01-20-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jermeyd

Well, if you know buzz about SEO, tell us 5 most SEO mistakes that new SEO makes?
Let the people judge you skill level.

Regards

1. Not charging enough is probably the biggest mistake.

2. Not saying they are whitehat. (Thanks, Adam, for the tip!)

3. Not going on popular forums and dropping your client's link. You deserve a bonus if you sign up and in your first post all you have is a link to your client.

4. Forgetting to make the most of free services such as Digg, Reddit, del.icio.us and StumbleUpon, which were made for you to advertise your client's site to potential audiences.

5. Overlooking attributes that you can stuff with your keywords. In my site, the gifs could be stuffed with something like, "A psychic giving you your free tarot card reading."

**johneva** · 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSWebMaster

Hmmm -

Seems you've mixed your monikers here. Social media includes blogs, bulletin boards (like this one), and all of the mobile media capabilities, among other things. Sometimes these are honest endeavors. SEO 2.0, is an interesting term -- did you coin it? I guess you are suggesting that ALL SEO practitioners use Social Media -- the wrong way?

Maybe you could site a number of premises that led you to that conclusion?

Scott

Just want to be clear the quote you made is not something I made as its a little unclear on who said what in that quote you made.

I carnt belive I have had to even comment in this stupid thread again, I find thi thread nothing but offencive to all people who do SEO/SEM work which considering its in an SEO forum where people come to help each other with SEO matters this thread is blatent flamming which rules on the forum say is not allowed.

**ADAM Web Design** · 01-20-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSWebMaster

Hmmm -

Seems you've mixed your monikers here. Social media includes blogs, bulletin boards (like this one), and all of the mobile media capabilities, among other things. Sometimes these are honest endeavors. SEO 2.0, is an interesting term -- did you coin it? I guess you are suggesting that ALL SEO practitioners use Social Media -- the wrong way?

Maybe you could site a number of premises that led you to that conclusion?

Scott

Oh for crying out loud! I can't believe I have to explain a sarcastic comment seriously.

The reason I made the comment is because others have said it and actually meant it. Personally, I believe it's one of the dumbest things that has been touted as an idea in recent memory.

Alan, I apologize, but I need to kill your joke by explaining it for what it is...a joke. Alan didn't mean a word of what he said, and I didn't mean most of what I said (there is a serious post here, though.) It's a social commentary on the perception of SEO, and it's not a flame. He's not attacking anyone personally (if anyone has done that, and that's a very big if, it's me, not Alan...and I was merely providing random examples of things he has cited here).

These posts actually serve a very useful purpose, though, as they illustrate a much more pandemic SEO issue: hypersensitivity. People get their shorts in a knot over things like what Alan said or what Gene Marks said or what Jason Calacanis says once in a while, because they're so damned insecure about any possible slight that an industry with a huge black eye that only those who sit just outside of the circle can see that any negative press has to be countered with swift, blinding rhetoric and belligerent elitism.

The beauty of what Alan and Gene and Jason do is that it separates those who get it and can understand the deeper point from those who don't and have to whine like seven-year-olds because their industry got put in its place yet again.

Alan deserves a Pull It Surprise for this.

**johneva** · 08:14 PM

Yeah yeah I am a seven year old just cos I dont like being classed as scum of the earth just cos I do a bit of SEO/SEM work on the side, it aint even my main job just something I do it for fun and to make a bit of extra cash here and there.

I have already said I agree that there is way to many ripp merchants in the trade but to slag of the whole trade and make out like anybody and anything to do with it is wrong and stupid just aint very fair for those who have worked hard at learning how to make websites and learn about SEO properly.

Yet your calling people who dont like this thread a whining 7 year old just cos we dont think its a sensible idea to slag off the very trade this section of the forum is for, joke or not.

So now I have been classed as all the bad names that you lot call anybody and anything to do with SEO and now also called a whinning 7 year old just cos I said I did not like the idea of the thread.

You say its a joke and no flamming has gone on yet what has this thread done except cause offence and arguments?

**ADAM Web Design** · 12:13 PM

John, if you're offended and you're one of the people who, as you would put it "do SEO properly", then there isn't a thing in this thread that can possibly taken as offensive.

No one called you a name.
No one said "John, you're a dumbass SEO".
No one said anything even remotely offensive or personal.

The SEO industry is crap. It's that simple. The majority of the SEOs and their legion of ***-kissing followers don't want to face it, but it's a steaming hunk of dog turd. If you don't like that or find it offensive, then talk to guys like <names removed > and all of their ethical criminal buddies. They're the ones that are ultimately responsible for the mess SEO is in...not Alan or anyone that got his point.

**fastreplies** · 01-21-2008, 08:12 PM

Guys come on, don't you see he is pulling you legs and I must admit are doing good job

and you aschwa, be carefull because you are playing with fire

fastreplies

**aschwa** · 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastreplies

Guys come on, don't you see he is pulling you legs and I must admit are doing good job

and you aschwa, be carefull because you are playing with fire

I don't know... it could be that Johneva is pulling our legs. We'll have to see whether he breaks character.

**chrishirst** · 08:47 AM

@johneva.

Read the first post in This Thread, take note of the thread starters forum handle and the anchor text of the first two signature links THEN ask why we very often have a low opinion of so-called "SEOs"!