SEO Tycoon

**tea42** · 05-14-2008, 01:52 PM

I haven't started to really SEO my site yet, so I don't expect to to have great rankings just yet. But my site has been indexed by google for over a week now, and yet I have not appeared in yahoo at all. I have read that submitting your site to the engines can have a very negative affect, so I am going to wait to be indexed. Anyone with some insight on why this is the case? Google can't be that superior that it picks me up 2 weeks ahead (and counting) than Yahoo can it?

**chrishirst** · 05-14-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

I have read that submitting your site to the engines can have a very negative affect

Not a negative effect, just no effect at all.

Sounds all perfectly normal to me. Sometimes crawlers find your pages in minutes, sometimes it takes 3 or 4 weeks.
It really depends on when they find the first links pointing to your site.

**zewert** · 05-15-2008, 04:49 AM

Yeah - just wait for a few more weeks. Submitting doesn't do anything - positive or negative; it just shows them that your site exists.

**burlingman** · 05-18-2008, 07:50 AM

Google is usually the first to index. For some reason Yahoo is the last. My sites are hosted by Yahoo and it's the same there also. Yahoo states that if you want to be listed quicker, PAY! If not, then wait a few months.

**girlgeek** · 05-18-2008, 09:07 AM

Just build a few links, write good content and it will happen.

Yahoo is slow, but Live/Msn is even slower.

**saranisa** · 05-18-2008, 12:12 PM

Yea Google indexed one of my site within 5 days but Yahoo took about 1 month. Maybe the way we deal with google SE is different with yahoo. Also we concentrate on Google index than Yahoo, so that might be the reason why Yahoo index a site slow.

**pow-wow** · 05-21-2008, 02:12 PM

From what I've seen Yahoo also favors sites heavily with the keyword in the title, url, and headers on the page. Link equity helps a ton in Yahoo obviously, but the basic onpage stuff can make a difference in Yahoo, especially in lower competitive areas.

**sachinagg** · 05-22-2008, 07:01 AM

these days it happening with all google index faster than yahoo. So just do wait!

**allwebsite** · 05-24-2008, 03:13 AM

Its take time...and do proper link building..

**SpringRain** · 05-25-2008, 02:05 AM

Yahoo still gives importance in Tags as Meta descriptions.
But I think getting indexing wont be a problem. I will let Yahoo find my search automatically.

**ved123** · 05-26-2008, 12:55 AM

Yahoo will take some some week 2 - 4 to index your site....google crawler is fast than other..

**kismet23** · 05-27-2008, 03:36 AM

i have the same experience. and i believed it takes time to indexed on yahoo.. well, based only on my experience.

**Firoj.seo** · 05-27-2008, 06:06 AM

Yahoo's crwler "slurp" is bit slower compare to google's and MSN's crawler . Yahoo normally take more time then other two major search engines . So just wait for 2 or 3 weeks and it will be crawl and index by yahoo. If you can create RSS file of your site then it will help in yahoo indexing..........

**Chappi** · 05-27-2008, 07:36 AM

For indexing sitemaps are very important.
Sitemaps are accepted by Google, Yahoo, MSN, Ask, Moreover - you can notify them all and wait.
In robots.txt put
Sitemap: http://www.mysite.com/sitemap.xml

create: http://www.xml-sitemaps.com/

submit: http://www.sitemapwriter.com/notify.php
http://www.mypagerank.net/service_sn_index

edit: "Sitemap Writer" 2.0 http://www.sitemapwriter.com

info: http://www.sitemaps.org/protocol.php
https://www.google.com/webmasters/to.../protocol.html

**chrishirst** · 05-27-2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chappi

For indexing sitemaps are very important.

Nope. They aren't even slightly important

I look after 15 sites not counting my own, do some programming for 20 others and not one of those sites has a XML sitemap.
These sites have from 10 pages to several thousand and just about every page on these sites is indexed by ALL the major search engines and a lot of minor ones.

All you need for indexing is a good navigation structure.

**Chappi** · 05-27-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishirst

Nope. They aren't even slightly important

If you have thousands of pages, navigation structure can be quite complicated.
And if you have flash menu ?
With sitemaps search engines can more intelligently crawl the site.
What happens, when site structure changed ? Tortue for crawlers.
What happens, when important page changed deep inside structure ?

Google:
Sitemaps are particularly beneficial when users can't reach all areas of a website through a browseable interface. (Generally, this is when users are unable to reach certain pages or regions of a site by following links). For example, any site where certain pages are only accessible via a search form would benefit from creating a Sitemap and submitting it to search engines.

Sometimes crawlers pick up sitemap seconds after submission.
Sitemap concept introduced Google and then Yahoo, MSN joined - they do know, what doing.
Sitemaps for (at least for me) is must - crawler comes, picks up single file and indexes all webpages by list.
When page is changed, made chenges in sitemap lastmod parameter for page in sitemap.
No need to recrawl (maybe almost all site) to reindex changed page.

Frankly speaking - I didn't expect somebody arguing against sitemaps.

**chrishirst** · 05-27-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

If you have thousands of pages, navigation structure can be quite complicated.

Not necessarily, just needs a bit of planning.

Quote:

And if you have flash menu ?

In that case you should have an alternative menu structure for non-flash enabled user agents anyway

Quote:

What happens, when site structure changed ? Tortue for crawlers.

You should have redirects in place for the users never mind the crawlers.

Quote:

What happens, when important page changed deep inside structure

Important pages can be deep in the site structure. BUT shouldn't be deep in the navigation structure. If they are important, they should be as close to the "home" page (in "clicks") as possible.

It appears your priorities are somewhat skewed, it should be that users can find the pages easily and quickly, and if users can find them, so can search engines, and XML sitemaps are absolutely of no use at all to real users.

A few solutions:

Huge site? (hundreds of thousands of pages)
Categorised and tiered site maps linked from the top "click" levels of the site. Did this for an 80,000 page ecommerce site (PC & Laptop hardware and spares) long before "sitemaps" became "de rigeur". Crawled pages went up from <20% to >90%. Conversions went up 75% as well because REAL people could find the pages. You don't get that with an XML sitemap.

Flash Menu?
Alternative text based links in page footer and HTML "sitemap"

Quote:

Frankly speaking - I didn't expect somebody arguing against sitemaps

I'm not arguing against XML sitemaps. I'm sure they have their uses.
Just pointing out that they are only of genuine use in very very few situations, and even then there will be an alternative way to make every page on ANY site accessible with the minimum of clicks.

**Chappi** · 05-27-2008, 03:45 PM

Ok. Even if navigation structure is very logical, if page is changed, for reindexing it still must be found.
Sitemaps are not alternative to easy navigation. They are not for users but for crawlers.

"it should be that users can find the pages easily and quickly, and if users can find them, so can search engines" - right, but why not to help crawler to pinpoint changes, thats all.

**chrishirst** · 05-27-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

if page is changed, for reindexing it still must be found.

Quote:

but why not to help crawler to pinpoint changes

This is where redirects come into play.

**tea42** · 06-27-2008, 07:03 PM

Well it has been some weeks now, and I have watched my site bounce around the SE rankings like a mad woman. Google was smoking Yahoo and MSN. But now after a month or so I am getting more hits from Yahoo, MSN and AOL combined than google. Considering I am >20 for most of my keywords, above the fold on page one for some, I am pretty happy so far. I can't wait to see what happens when I start actually creating more than 5 backlinks!

I must have done something right.