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SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
Old 08-06-2008, 05:55 PM SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
Junior Talker

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Hello,

I'm an IT engineer just finishing my program. I've been looking into SEO for a couple of weeks now (just for fun) and I'm very disappointed.

All I can find for information is some marketer's mumbo jumbo. "pelletage de nuage" in french. Really nothing solid, nothing practical.

Yes it's all fun and stuff pretending to be cool and get the best site ranking. I work in web sites, I'm currently doing integrating and programming stuff, nothing too complex.

I'm looking for real SEO stuff that I can put into action on my sites to simple "optimize" them. I'm not looking to go on a campain to get #1 and 3 billion hits (my boss' wallet would not like that at all).

So After searching a lot I still havent found any relevant information other than get meaning full titles of stuff like :

"Description META Tag: I highly recommend writing a separate description for every page."

DUHHHHHH!!!!! but then again the guy who wrote that which everyone says he's good and give me links to his site, really has'nt thought about this stuff a lot.

Do you have a static site? No. Neither do I, neither does anyone on the web. Try and giving a unique description for pages now einstein.

Ok so I digged further, went to see what people actually used, specifically on dynamic pages. On this site they put the title of the post as meta keywords and the first words of the post in meta description.

"

<meta name="keywords" content="Would,SEO,method,get,me,banned,Would this SEO method get me banned?, webmaster forum, web design forum, coding forum, hosting forum, webmaster forums, webmaster" /><meta name="description" content="Hey guys, I'm currently redesigning and optimizing my site for keywords. I had an idea to have &quot;bar&quot; at the top of my page with several keywords that are related to" />

"
Ok, that's a start, but is it good? How do you deal with this?

What other concrete action can I pose to optimize my pages?

FYI : That guys does'nt even do that on his site. I guess I'm a bit tired of "fake knowledge"...



<meta name="description" content="Hey guys, I'm currently redesigning and optimizing my site for keywords. I had an idea to have &quot;bar&quot; at the top of my page with several keywords that are related to" />
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Old 08-06-2008, 06:34 PM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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Here is what I think:

First of all, start with a quick keyword research. Don't waste too much time on it, but it gives you ideas of what people search.
Once you've made a list of keywords, integrate them to:

- the Title attribute. One of the most important thing to optimize. Don't put too much keywords there. Again, make it user friendly.

-Description tag. As you said, one page = one description. Don't stuff them with keywords as it is the text that usually appears under your link in the SERPs. (some SEs show your DMOZ description text) you can prevent that by using <META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOODP">

-keyword tag. Pretty much ignored by much SEs. It's still good practice to put one as some SEs still look at it but don't waste time on it.

- alt attribute: when you insert an image, make sure to describe the alt attribute so that the SE's know what your image is about.

- Header tags Set up hierarchy in your titles naming them H1 - H2 etc...the words in those title have more weight according to SEs.

- Content:
Don't worry about keyword density etc....write for the users, not for the search engines, but try to add relevant keywords in it if possible. The thing is, some people say that if the overall keyword density is higher than 15/20%, you might get penalized. My point is: your content will look like crap and no one will stay on your website.

Keyword in bold and close to the top supposedly have a little more weight than other but if you start thinking this way, you'll end up with a big migraine.

-links: use keywords in the anchor text of the links. (precision: I'm talking about internal links as "links are advertising, not optimizing"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Navigation: you should be able to access every page of your website within two clicks. You can create a sitemap and submit it to SEs to help them find all your pages (for big websites). You can prevent SEs to index some pages.
Here is a link to Google's list on what tag they read and which one they don't care about

A common mistake: having URL Variants of the same page, for example:
http://www domain com
http://domain com
http://www domain com/index.htm
http:/domain com/index.htm


etc...If you do that, SEs think all those pages are different. Set up a 301 redirect to only one of them (I would recommend http://www domain com even if it doesn't matter) to stop splitting your SEO efforts between different pages.

I will say it here to prevent 50 spam comments: (if only)
build more links.
Try to build relevant links that will drive targeted traffic to your website, with keyword in the anchor text of the link.
For example: "chicken for sale" would be a better link than: www chicken com

Add a blog to your website and keep on posting relevant content on it. SEs love it and will come index your website often.
Don't worry about SE submission or directory/social bookmarkers. Those have no influence on your rankings. (very little value)

Last tip: don't worry about page rank.

I hope it helps. I probably forgot a few things but other people will add to my comment.

My post contains basic tips but it should give you a head start. I hope this is not a pelletage de nuage mais quelque chose d'interessant et qui pourra t'aider dans la construction de ton site.
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Last edited by juliensimon; 08-06-2008 at 07:24 PM..
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:19 PM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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I'll post a few links to some concrete stuff down below, but I also want to mention that you shouldn't leave out optimizing for your users. Ultimately, all the SEO in the world doesn't matter if your users leave your site as soon as they load the page. That doesn't get you ad revenue, sales, or a registration. If you have an action that you want people to take, you can certainly test the conversion rate for that action for any given page. Use split testing to gradually improve the conversion rate by changing only one factor at a time and compare it to the last set.

That said, here are a few links you might find useful for SEO:

http://www.seomoz.org/article/search-ranking-factors
http://www.seobook.com/blog
http://sphinn.com/
http://sebastians-pamphlets.com/
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Old 08-07-2008, 01:20 AM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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You must have a deep and brief KEYWORD RESEARCH first.
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Old 08-07-2008, 02:46 AM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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Quote:
Do you have a static site? No. Neither do I, neither does anyone on the web. Try and giving a unique description for pages now einstein.
So write a table that has what you feel are important tags such as title, description, headings etc and stick that in your page template. You edit it in the table per page and you are done.

Take a good look at what Julien said above. He gave you a lot of good info. The only thing I would disagree on is the keyword research, but you can use stats over time for that.

If your traffic comes from search engines its really:

Google Search -> your landing page -> close the visitor.

It'll be different for every site, niche and page, but it doesn't hurt to play by standard practices that G appears to like at first and then keep tweaking things.

Also, on a dynamic site, set up your table structure so you can change it as the times change. What works today, may not work tomorrow and you need to easily be able to adapt.
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Old 08-07-2008, 03:58 AM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill benson View Post
So write a table that has what you feel are important tags such as title, description, headings etc and stick that in your page template. You edit it in the table per page and you are done.

Take a good look at what Julien said above. He gave you a lot of good info. The only thing I would disagree on is the keyword research, but you can use stats over time for that.

If your traffic comes from search engines its really:

Google Search -> your landing page -> close the visitor.

It'll be different for every site, niche and page, but it doesn't hurt to play by standard practices that G appears to like at first and then keep tweaking things.

Also, on a dynamic site, set up your table structure so you can change it as the times change. What works today, may not work tomorrow and you need to easily be able to adapt.
Why would you use tables? Meta information goes in the document head and division-based CSS layouts are far superior to table-based layouts. Tables are really only good for displaying tabular data.
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Old 08-07-2008, 06:00 AM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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Quote:
Do you have a static site? No. Neither do I, neither does anyone on the web. Try and giving a unique description for pages now einstein.
Obviously I must be a genius then. I have several "dynamic" site and all the pages have a different meta description.

And of course if you think that a meta keywords element and a meta description elements == SEO then you have a lot more learning to do.

Add HighRankings to the essential reading, starting with the Tips for Newbies thread
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:24 PM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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Aside from seomoz.org, seobook....

also try reading the seo e-book from:

http://www.seofaststart.com/ by dan thies

and from websiteplublisher forum by chris beasley

also seo facts from sitepoint forum..


These are good seo e-book... all the facts about seo...

Last edited by torpengkute; 08-07-2008 at 10:25 PM..
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:09 PM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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Wow, very well put julien. Great post, I wish someone would have told me that when I first started.

Quote:
A common mistake: having URL Variants of the same page, for example:
http://www domain com
http://domain com
http://www domain com/index.htm
http:/domain com/index.htm
That especially, didn't find out till after like 9th website. And the same with your comment on PR. I agree 100% page rank is bull****. I see brand new spam sites with PR6-7 and my quality sites that I have been gradually adding unique content to and slow link building, go down from PR4 to PR1 and 0.
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:01 AM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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Oh how I love the mumbo and the jumbo, but where's the gumbo?
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Old 08-08-2008, 12:19 PM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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Originally Posted by johniman7 View Post
Wow, very well put julien. Great post, I wish someone would have told me that when I first started.
Thanks -

Quote:
Originally Posted by johniman7 View Post
my quality sites that I have been gradually adding unique content to and slow link building, go down from PR4 to PR1 and 0.
One correction: Adding unique content has no influence on PR.
http://www.google.com = PR10. How much content to they have on the page?
PR is only determined by links.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:58 PM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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Your are correct I was just making the general assumption agreeing with you that PR is not a great indicator of the quality of a site.
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:46 AM Re: SEO for real, no mumbo jumbo
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Ok about 6 months later here's my reply

Hello to everyone, well indeed there was real information here, not only "pelletage de nuage" hehe

Ok I have a blog, people here want to put it on a subdomain, but still "in" our site. Something like www.mysite.com and the blog at blogforfun.mysite.com. Is that good, bad or neither ? Should I place it in www.mysite.com/blogforfun/ instead ?

Again for descriptions, my CMS is developped in-house and so people here enter content via an admin console. There are other people that prepare the dynamic templates (integrators and such). You're saying I should for instance in an editorial article, have in my CMS a special field for "meta description" then go talk the the writer (who knows squat about SEO) and ask her to also fill in the description field, saying that that's what's gonna show up in SERPS ? I dunno that seams kinda pushing it, and I have many places in my CMS that I would have to add that and then talk to at least 10 different people to ask them to fill that field. I'm not sure that's feasible for me.

Maybe I coule instead use part of the text I get in my template and put that into description ? But that wont be as good as it could be. Any thoughts? (FYI, I got 6 sites each having around 500 files generating over 30 000 pages each, aint the biggest sites out there, but aint so small either so Bill's theory with creating a table is not quite possible).

LOL @ VirtuosiMedia's reply to Bill...

Finally, there's something else, my site, well, I'm still working on them. I mean, they are not a "one project - now it's done" kind of deal. They represent 6 sections of my employer's commercial activities (media related). So we have an in-house team of 20 working on these 6 sites every day all the time.

Thx Julien for the good information and thx others for good links!
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