SEO Tycoon

**willcode4beer** · 03-30-2009, 05:32 PM

The idea behind keyword research is, when someone searches for a given keyword, your site will show up higher in the results.

Presumably, this is because this is what your site is about and these are the users you want to target.

So, if your site is about a given subject, you should have information about that subject. Doing this means you automatically make the keyword important by focusing on your users instead of the search engines.

Conclusion: focus on your visitors and the SEO will take care of itself

**zeruel** · 03-30-2009, 11:21 PM

LOL! Keyword research is one of the most important part of site analysis. Without it, you maybe targeting the wrong keywords which can definitely be a waste of time. So keyword research is important and should be considered as part of the whole process.

**Generator** · 03-30-2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Doing this means you automatically make the keyword important by focusing on your users instead of the search engines.

Huh? No. The search engines are a machine - it is impossible for them to know that "focusing on users" will improve their results. If you want to do good in them, you have to focus on search engines.

**serandfae** · 03-31-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeruel

LOL! Keyword research is one of the most important part of site analysis. Without it, you maybe targeting the wrong keywords which can definitely be a waste of time. So keyword research is important and should be considered as part of the whole process.

So, you're saying that keyword research is important because keyword research is important. What about that isn't circular reasoning?

A focus on relevant content for ANY subject will generally already include the keywords that one would type in to a SE. That relevant content will also be far more likely to ensure a bookmark/return visit. A site "optimized" with a ****load of keywords will more often than not be backed out of and not visited again. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to market the buzzword "keyword research" or "keyword optimization" to turn a quick buck.

tim

**willcode4beer** · 04-01-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Generator

Huh? No. The search engines are a machine - it is impossible for them to know that "focusing on users" will improve their results. If you want to do good in them, you have to focus on search engines.

If your site is about a given topic, then it should automatically have the correct "keywords".

For example, if I create a site about dogs. Let's say I want to target keywords: "dog food" (for whatever reason)

The only practical reason to target the keywords "dog food" would be if I had information about dog food. If I didn't users would simply hit the back button after arriving.
By having all of these pages about "dog food", for my users. The search indexer also parses the words "dog food" in the pages.

The search engine doesn't know I'm focusing on my users. The indexer simply comes across the words "dog food" quite a bit. This makes the term more relevant.

See, I focused on the user. My users will appreciate that the content is tailored toward them. The SEO took care of itself.

To broaden the topic a bit, I recommend building a little search site. Try using the open source project Lucene to get started. One of the best ways to understand how a search indexer works, is to work with one directly.

**tehfincheh** · 04-01-2009, 06:57 PM

It's a nice theory but most money-making markets out there are saturated. You could write your pages about dog food and they might never be seen because a search engine has no way of differentiating the expert advice from the misleading sales talk.

Run a search for "Top Ten Web Hosts" and what do you find? A lot of crap essentially. It's all very well to say that writing your content naturally is the way to go, and to an extent I agree that it is. But without an eye for creative keywords and good use of the long tail, you're gonna find yourself squeezed out of a crowded space.

You're right in the sense that keyword research should never come before subject matter research. But somebody who REALLY knows their game will be an expert in both.

I hear continuously that "content comes first" and that's fair enough. But I bet that if you narrowed it down to a contest between a pure creative copywriter, a pure SEO-keyword guy, and somebody who's an expert in both - the expert in both will always come out on top. That's why keyword research HAS to matter if you're serious about covering every angle in your web promotion.

**willcode4beer** · 04-01-2009, 08:16 PM

ok but, then again most "money-making" sites don't ;-)

**ShawnITSolution** · 04-02-2009, 12:33 AM

We as a development and internet marketing company believe that the "keyword research" is a very huge part of marketing.

Sure, I understand what you are saying that if you know your market and your niche good enough that there should be no need to do keyword research, but you always have to look for competitive advantages over your competition.

Just because I am selling dog furniture doesn't mean that the best way to get traffic and business to my site are using the keywords "dog furniture, pet furniture" etc.

We believe that you should be more specific and use keywords that is targeted to your niche, but your competition is not using, it helps give advantage when you have nothing.

LTK (long tail keywords) are a huge advantage in this topic.

**doradito** · 04-05-2009, 10:55 PM

"But I bet that if you narrowed it down to a contest between a pure creative copywriter, a pure SEO-keyword guy, and somebody who's an expert in both - the expert in both will always come out on top."

That is so true! It has to be good writing, and it has to have keywords in strategic places.

**dimok** · 04-07-2009, 09:22 AM

Researching keywords aimed not only to get more SE traffic but also to make contenteasily scannable for users. Good titles with right keywords will help much.

**motherknucker** · 04-07-2009, 10:52 AM

Yes, search engine rankings are done by a machine so can't trust it.
Only a human can tell fairly which site must be ranked on the top.

Keyword research, accessing density of that keyword is a must.

**MH-Andy** · 04-07-2009, 11:15 AM

Keyword Research is still VERY important these days even if search engines are relying more on unique content.

**jogawheelman** · 04-09-2009, 04:41 PM

Data collected from keyword research is also from trends collected from people.

**Jeremy80** · 04-09-2009, 04:53 PM

If you are an expert on the subject you are writing about, you can do quite well without doing keyword research. Most people aren't exactly experts in what they are writing about though. Whether you are an expert or not, you might not have thought of all the keywords that someone might use to find what you are writing about. Doing keyword research opens up new keyword opportunities. Back to the dog food example, by skipping keyword research you likely wouldn't mention words like reviews, ratings, coupons, recall, etc. So you are missing out on many keywords. By doing keyword research you may also get new ideas for a whole new article. Writing web content without doing keyword research is like doing something blindfolded.

**dimok** · 04-10-2009, 06:49 AM

Content is king and that's true. But if you don't research keywords and optimize your content for them then your content is invisible to your targeted users. Even there could be a problem with spammy competitors who grab your content and gain link value to it - so they could beat you in SEs.