SEO Tycoon

**fern** · 01-13-2010, 08:48 PM

What is written below is part of a copy of a posting I just made in another post regarding Google banning remedies. However afterwards I thought that I would be better off asking about it here (I even added more info here):

"Although I have known about this (spamming techniques that can get you in trouble) and stay away from them, of course, I am a little concerned about if one of my sites might be considered braking precisely one of this rules: close to invisible letters.

The fonts I used in the names, mostly of countries, are a light gray, not invisible per say, but I know that even close to invisible might keep your rankings low, and I'm not sure how much "invisible" they could be considered - until now it is 0 and I'm not sure if this is the reason or because I am repeating the same name pattern in many other pages - with a legitimate purpose, naturally. Can you or someone else give me some feedback on this?

My site is http://www.grocerystoresupermarket.com/
Thanks in advance."

**chrishirst** · 01-14-2010, 05:11 AM

Maybe you should have more respect and concern for real people instead of stuffing your page with useless junk.

**fern** · 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishirst

Maybe you should have more respect and concern for real people instead of stuffing your page with useless junk.

Thank you chrishirst for your review: However, and don't be offended for what I am about to say, but I maybe I was wrong in asking - I expected an intelligent answer with at least some technical facts and figures from an expert from whom I could learn something. I didn't expect to be insulted and also get an empty answer.

Something else - It looks like you are a veteran in this forum. However I should remind you of the rules that you apparently forgot:

"Be Respectful!

No Flames of any kind against a member, or group of members. Flames are considered a deliberate personal attack on another member or group of members. Having a difference of opinion is fine, but if it gets out of hand and turns into a fight to get the biggest jab at the other person, then its gone too far.

If you are a long-standing member, act like one. Lead by example and assist other newer members rather then attacking them. We look upon our veteran members to use this opportunity to teach the newer members the appropriate way to use these message boards.

Treat new members with respect, and visa versa. You were new at one point, as was everyone else. Please treat newcomers to the forums with respect, and new members should treat everyone else the same way."

**chrishirst** · 01-14-2010, 07:16 PM

Maybe you should direct your annoyance at the person who told you it was a good idea to stuff a third of your page with useless verbiage.

The intent to "spam" by such an action is perfectly obvious, you asked for a "check for spam" knowing full well what the semi-hidden text is for, then you take offence when taken to task over it.

Technical facts????

The facts you need to know is that USERS come first. They are the ones with credit cards who may come along and buy your products
Hidden (or almost) shows how little you consider the BUYERS of your products, all the "rankings" in the world will NOT keep you in business if visitors arrive at your page and leave immediately?

**JeremyMiller** · 01-14-2010, 08:29 PM

Chris is far more than "just a veteran", fyi. And, you appear to have missed the definition of a flame:

Quote:

Flames are considered a deliberate personal attack on another member or group of members.

Chris did 2 things in his initial reply to you:

1) Counseled you on best practices (hell, even elementarily-decent practices) by saying, "Maybe you should have more respect and concern for real people". That was not a direct attack on you, but an admonishment of proper thinking.

2) He answered whether it was spam -- albeit in his own words: "instead of stuffing your page with useless junk".

You knew that you were trying to keyword spam your page when you asked the question -- and if you didn't, then he let you know.

He gave you, in a single sentence, the direct answer and guidance on how to think. You, however, took the advice personally instead of for it's value, so he elaborated.

You'd be well advised to read the Quality Guidelines at http://www.google.com/support/webmas...n&answer=35769 as you violated the first 2 points under it.

**fern** · 01-14-2010, 10:41 PM

Well, excuse me for taking personal offense but the fact is that I was looking for help (a practical critique would have been just fine) however all I got from chrishirst was a post that didn't ring any real bells, as I was looking for, and actually it sounded like a flame, if it wasn't one, just like in at least another post I saw that he made. I am new to posting in forums and he might be more than a veteran as you say, and maybe that's his character, I don't know, but if that is that is how he usually acts, making fun of people instead of really helping them, even if he is right in a way, I don't know if am wasting my time in this forum.

To begin with, I do respect my visitors, that's the reason why the light gray letters are there to begin with, in order no to annoy them. The purpose of this letters (most of it names of countries) should be more than obvious if you check this link in my site: http://www.grocerystoresupermarket.com/Florida/FL_dade/dade_county_coupons__specials.htm
however it should also be more than obvious that I am alone doing everything in my site and working at two jobs at the same time, meaning that I can't possibly fill everything you see blank there in one shot.

Mainly I wanted to know if the font "color" could be considered a problem by Google. It have never been my intention to place invisible keywords in there. If that would have been my intention you wouldn't be able to see them in the visible part of the page but the search engine spiders would have anyway. I just wanted to know specifically up to what degree I could lighten them up (maybe they are too light already, I don't know) so that they could serve their purpose.

Regarding chrishirst last post: "Maybe you should direct your annoyance at the person who told you it was a good idea to stuff a third of your page with useless verbiage." Sorry, but nobody told me to do this, it was my own idea with a purpose as you can see.

However the way this guy talks to everybody “useless verbiage”, etc., etc., I think it says a lot about him, just ask a psychologist - but you or him might not like what he has to say - I'm sorry

but people usually talk about others or about their work the way they feel about
themselves or their work.

Regarding his story about "technical facts", I know them full well since I talk about it in another site that I own where I write about making the pages visitor friendly. However if he just got a fast look at my site with his eyes half closed then I can understand since he just knows a very small part of the story.

Well, I’m sorry about all of this - misunderstanding or not. I don't think that I will be wasting any more of your or that of chrishirst time with my website or anything else - but thanks anyway for your input.

**JeremyMiller** · 01-14-2010, 11:36 PM

Much to learn have you, young Padawan -- about psychology, yourself, and web development.

Chris doesn't beat around the bush, but honesty is definitely a forté of his and one of the reasons I like him as a person: no BS and highly competent.

The only time wasted was on complaining about Chris. We are happy to help, but sometimes "tough love is the only love," so take it with a grain of salt, check your ego, and come back to learn more -- we're all wrong at various times, but by taking it personally we impede our own personal progress.

Now, off of all that personal stuff and back to your original question:

If you've learned anything, hopefully it is that what you did is widely -- if not universally -- considered a spamming technique. Build your pages when you have the time and link to them in a way that facilitates your users' experience and you'll provide an experience that will be worthwhile to your visitors. Chris and I are not the only ones who'd have looked at your site and immediately hit the back button to find a non-spam site, so you got the exact information you were looking for.

Might I suggest another question for you to ask: "How can I build my site over time in a non-spam like fashion while ranking well for various keywords and providing my users with the best experience?"

That's obviously a loaded question and some searching around on the forum here can help, but it will lead you down a much better path.