SEO Tycoon

**joe1996** · 01-19-2010, 12:47 PM

Can anyone tell me what the guidelines are for over-optimizing? For example, how many times can your keywords be in the meta description, title, etc..until it's considered over-optimized and incurs a google penalty?

**Christoph** · 01-19-2010, 01:37 PM

As far as I know, a good guide would be to try to have your keywords between 2 %- 5% the whole post.

Try to put these keywords like so

TOP OF POST BODY: 50%

MIDDLE OF POST BODY:15%

NEAR END POST BODY: 10%

END POST BODY:25%

This is a very general plan, NOT something you MUST stick to.

Google likes your keywords mostly in the top of your post body and aparently at the end. This is because their spiders crawl a page much like we read one...

Hope that helps

**chrishirst** · 01-19-2010, 02:16 PM

NOTHING can be "over optimised"!

Optimised means being the best it can be.

Quote:

Google likes your keywords mostly in the top of your post body and aparently at the end. This is because their spiders crawl a page much like we read one...

Utter rubbish!!

**Christoph** · 05:41 PM

Saying you cant be "over-optimized" is a bit misleading in my opinion.

Of course there is a limit to the amount of keywords you can use before Google realises you are directly creating your site for SERP and not for the benefit of the reader's.

I understand you are saying you cant be "over-optimized" because naturally, your aim is to be "optimum" for search engines.

But that is the question really, what is "optimum" practise for keyword density etc?

I would be interested in your opinion what you believe to be a suitable keyword density. I am sure it depends on a million different factor's and not as clear cut as 2 - 5 percent. But from 99% of the information available this is the general view.

If you think otherwise I would dearly like to know.

Thanks

P.S your sig is genious...

**chrishirst** · 01-20-2010, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Of course there is a limit to the amount of keywords you can use before Google realises you are directly creating your site for SERP and not for the benefit of the reader's.

Maybe, but that's hardly "over optimising"! That's just spamming.

AND you have to go a LONG way into "keyword stuffing" to fall foul of SE algos. We are not talking about repeating a word/phrase 3 or 4 times here

Quote:

I understand you are saying you cant be "over-optimized" because naturally, your aim is to be "optimum" for search engines.

NOPE!! the "aim" is to be optimum for sales or conversions.

Quote:

I would be interested in your opinion what you believe to be a suitable keyword density. I am sure it depends on a million different factor's and not as clear cut as 2 - 5 percent. But from 99% of the information available this is the general view.

There is no such fixed value.

**bigcat1967** · 01-20-2010, 03:42 PM

Just optimize your title tag - throw in your KWs into a header possibly - and throw in a KW or two. Don't overdo it - as one SEO guy told me - just write naturally and don't worry about the KWs.

**watchitmister** · 01-21-2010, 08:05 AM

Yeah, I agree. Just put some keywords in the title and headers tags with a few in the body. A lot of my review pages dont mention the word review in the body maybe a time or two but i still rank on page one for those

**janestewart** · 07:00 AM

An optimum density is more a minimum and maximum density to work between, then an exact number that is perfect all the time. What the minimum and maximum percentages are depends on what numbers you use to calculate them.

**chrishirst** · 01-22-2010, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janestewart

An optimum density is more a minimum and maximum density to work between, then an exact number that is perfect all the time. What the minimum and maximum percentages are depends on what numbers you use to calculate them.

WINNER!!!!!!!

Of the most useless post of the week award!!

**watchitmister** · 01-22-2010, 09:58 AM

darn, I've always dreamed of getting this award

**MrFlicks** · 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishirst

Maybe, but that's hardly "over optimising"! That's just spamming.

AND you have to go a LONG way into "keyword stuffing" to fall foul of SE algos. We are not talking about repeating a word/phrase 3 or 4 times here

NOPE!! the "aim" is to be optimum for sales or conversions.

There is no such fixed value.

I have not read the whole thread but I reckon you hit the nail on the head Chris - Spamming is over optimising

EG a url like se/o-expert.com/seo-expert-seo-expert-seo-expert.htm

That could be construed as over optimising into spams ville I reckon

**Link_building** · 01-27-2010, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishirst

NOTHING can be "over optimised"!

Optimised means being the best it can be.

Utter rubbish!!

I agree, it seems this is a google guy

**Robertpatrick** · 01-27-2010, 06:29 AM

Hi,

I came to know from this forum that over optimized does not exists, but i think over optimized does exists.

If considering and example: if you have a website and if you want to promote it then you do forums postings, link exchanges, social media and networking submissions, so if you do many forums postings daily then does not the moderator understands this as an over optimization method and marks you as a spammer. isn't it???

**chrishirst** · 01-27-2010, 11:58 AM

I've read it four times now and still don't understand what you are trying to say!

**Fusion BPO** · 04:17 AM

Make your targeted keyword density between 3% to 5% in whole body. Generate link for site in natural way .

Good luck.

**ankit28** · 01-28-2010, 06:07 AM

u put your keywords density maximum at 7 %. so u can take ratio of your keywords between 4 to 7 % in hole body.

**edgray** · 01-28-2010, 06:56 AM

Good to see people still harping on about keyword density. It wouldn't feel like an SEO forum if they didn't. Just to reiterate, for those that have missed it:

KEYWORD DENSITY DOES NOT MATTER.

I've often wondered about this whole "over optimising" thing. I don't think Google would penalise you for optimising your pages perfectly... far from it. I would like to think that many of the pages I work on are optimised perfectly - keywords in all the right places etc etc. Never once been penalised.

KEYWORD DENSITY STILL DOES NOT MATTER.

I think this "over optimisation" thing is just a crock of doodah. It might have originally meant keyword stuffing, in which case it's a total misnomer - because stuffing is the total opposite of optimising.

KEYWORD DENSITY DOES NOT MATTER.

The simple rule of making it for humans is right. You can have your keywords in your title as many times as is useful to humans. Any more isn't optimising, it's stuffing and making your title not make sense to humans.

For example:

Royal Pianos | Large Pianos, Grand Pianos, Compact Pianos

I would say is acceptable, even though the keyword is in there 4 times. What isn't acceptable would be:

Royal Pianos | Pianos, Pianos, Pianos, Pianos Pianos.

That there is your "over optimising"... or keyword stuffing. This won't look good for Google simply because it doesn't look good for us humans. Oh, and one more time, for the kids at the back:

KEYWORD DENSITY DOES NOT MATTER.

**edgray** · 01-28-2010, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ankit28

u put your keywords density maximum at 7 %. so u can take ratio of your keywords between 4 to 7 % in hole body.

so what if you only have 2 words on a page (and I have seen this before) and one of the words is your keyword. That would make your keyword density be 50%. By your reasoning, or lack of it, that page would get penalised, yet it hasn't been.

See post above.

**vishalsanjay96** · 01-30-2010, 07:20 AM

Google no longer considers your meta keywords and in case you do over optimize, your not going to be found in any of the search results. Google is smarter than you think.

**FenceGuy** · 01-31-2010, 10:24 PM

SEO SECRET: And if you tell, I will hunt you down!

Write for PEOPLE! If your content is something that actual people want to read, it will do well in searches.

Link out to authority sites. Don't be so scared to link out. If your site is a dead end then what good is that to the reader?

End of my secrets for today....