SEO Tycoon

**Learning Newbie** · 06-19-2007, 03:49 PM

Free means different things to different people, and you could argue this isn't free. You have to make an investment of $25 or more, which is a fancy way of saying you have to lend someone money. But you get paid back, and with interest.

This is something I'm planning to write about in my blog, but I figured if I post it here, people will actually read it.

Microlending is the next big thing. People in the "developing world" (fancy term for 3rd World) apply for loans of anywhere from $50 to $1,500. Local banks screen them carefully: the loans have to be for opening or expanding a business, they need to have written up a comprehensive business plan, and so on. The Kiva site connects "investors" in the rich world with entrepreneurs and the local banks to provide funding for the loans.

This helps someone stand on their own two feet, and ripples through the whole village. A lot of people are trying to open grocery stores, things like that, that provide needed services. It also creates new jobs often enough. And, because we're dealing with people in a totally different culture, no one ever defaults, that would bring shame on their family. 95 % of people pay back their loans early or on time. You can evaluate the individual and the bank the loan is through. This isn't charity, it's a market-based solution, and a diversified investment. It's also a follow link from a PR 7 domain, plus goodwill and respect from anyone who sees it.

Oh, and this isn't an affiliate scheme or anything. I have nothing to do with Kiva, except I heard about it on NPR last night, and it's a fantastic idea. I'm going to put in a bit of money, mostly because you can't start a US business for less than about $10,000 but I can actually make a difference in someone else's dream. Lately there's been a lot of spam about join some new social bookmark club, trade diggs, stumble exchange, yada yada yada, so I thought I should make people aware of a better alternative. If you're just chasing backlinks and willing to pay for them anyway, you might as well get your money back and do something positive while you're getting those links, right?

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=bus...tBy=Popularity
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=bus...tBy=Popularity

**peanutpad** · 06-20-2007, 03:11 PM

Sounds like a scam

**Learning Newbie** · 06-20-2007, 11:24 PM

What does? The credit industry specifically? Capitalism as a whole? SEO in general?

**ADAM Web Design** · 06-20-2007, 11:47 PM

There either has to be some legitimacy to it or it's one of the all-time whopper scams, and I lean toward the former myself. John's not going to get fooled, and neither are these guys:

http://www.kiva.org/about/supporters/

**Learning Newbie** · 06-21-2007, 04:00 PM

Grameen Bank, one of the invents of the idea, was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize for this work.

The New York times wrote:

Anyone who scoffs at the value of 62 cents should talk to Muhammad Yunus. In 1976, the Bangladeshi economics professor tried an experiment. From his pocket, he lent the equivalent of $26 to a group of 42 workers. With that 62 cents per person, they bought the materials for a dayís work weaving chairs or making pots. At the end of their first day as independent business owners, they sold their work and soon paid back loan.

Thus began the microcredit movement, which has become the worldís hot idea for reducing poverty. This month, microcreditís backers met in Washington to began to broaden the programís reach and raise money from developed nations and institutions such as the World Bank. Eight million people are now getting microcredit, half of them in Bangladesh. Microcredit proponents want to expand that to 100 million people by 2005.It is a worthy goal that the united states should supports.

Business Week writes:

Micro Loans, Solid Returns
Microfinance funds lift poor entrepreneurs -- and benefit investors

With about $200 of his own money and a $1,500 loan, Vahid Hujdur rented space in the old section of Sarajevo and started repairing, then reselling discarded industrial sewing machines. Eight years and several loans later, Hujdur now has 10 employees building, installing, and fixing industrial machinery.

Again, what are you saying is a scam? Are you complaining that there are people out there who want to make the world a better place? Or is the problem that so many people live their lives in poverty in the first place?

**astrojith** · 06-22-2007, 09:05 AM

Hey, Grameen Bank idea is being made to practice here in my country and is helping millions of people to get employment especially in sectors like agriculture.

**Learning Newbie** · 06-22-2007, 03:03 PM

What do you think of them, Astrojith?

I've always been against rampant capitalism and globilization, because, well, that's what liberals do. We don't want any part of exploiting people. But everything I hear and read about micro credit seems like it's a really good thing for everybody. If the "market solution" is actually helping people, well, that's better than going to protests and not accomplishing anything positive.

If millions of people are finding jobs because of this who didn't have them before, that's a really good thing. That's something we should celebrate. Or at least that's how it sounds to me.

I think we're going to have to invest in this. I was half expecting someone to point something bad out that I didn't know about, but if that doesn't happen, I'd like to encourage anyone else reading this to give some thought to the idea, too.

**Vasity** · 06-25-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

What does? The credit industry specifically? Capitalism as a whole? SEO in general?

I think this is good. I will invest the amount..sounds reasonable been trying to figure out what to do with 500$ anyways...probably getting a banner exchange..and this lol.

Thanks for allowing this out there PR-7 back link is goot

**EGS** · 06-26-2007, 01:55 AM

Wow, that's really interesting and cool...I sent you a PM.

**ved123** · 06-26-2007, 08:37 AM

Thats good..

**Vasity** · 06-26-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasity

I think this is good. I will invest the amount..sounds reasonable been trying to figure out what to do with 500$ anyways...probably getting a banner exchange..and this lol.

Thanks for allowing this out there PR-7 back link is goot

I have decided against this, it seems very liberal minded....I do not want to help people unless they pay full amount back, and I noticed in many cases they had only paid 4-20% back I am not a charity giver especially when there are people in hte USA who could use this type of help more. Not to say there isn't any people from the USA on the site because there is, but most of it catters to countries outside of mine.

Nice offer I guess, just not one for me

**Learning Newbie** · 06-26-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasity

I have decided against this, it seems very liberal minded....I do not want to help people unless they pay full amount back, and I noticed in many cases they had only paid 4-20% back I am not a charity giver especially when there are people in hte USA who could use this type of help more. Not to say there isn't any people from the USA on the site because there is, but most of it catters to countries outside of mine.

That's because they haven't finished paying the loan back yet. Each loan has a term, probably about 12 months on average, and you'll looking at the ones that are 4% to 20% finished repaying their loan.

It's amazing how many Americans default on their loans and declare bankruptcy. That's part of why the micro-credit movement is so successful, it lends to people who aren't American, who feel honor bound to actually repay the loan, instead of just paying a lawyer to make it go away.

**Vasity** · 06-26-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

That's because they haven't finished paying the loan back yet. Each loan has a term, probably about 12 months on average, and you'll looking at the ones that are 4% to 20% finished repaying their loan.

It's amazing how many Americans default on their loans and declare bankruptcy. That's part of why the micro-credit movement is so successful, it lends to people who aren't American, who feel honor bound to actually repay the loan, instead of just paying a lawyer to make it go away.

Ya I don't think only Viet Nam people should be able to get these types of things, this is my only problem with this site. It's great idea and I think it could go a lot farther if you had USA citizens to invest in.

**Learning Newbie** · 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasity

Ya I don't think only Viet Nam people should be able to get these types of things, this is my only problem with this site.

It's not limited to Viet Nam. They're lending to millions of people across India. You can loan to people in North America, South America, Central America, Eastern Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and Asia.

The reason the rich world is excluded is that this is micro-lending. $50 won't even pay for a business license in the USA. I think the maximum they lens is $1,600, which is a fraction of what it takes to launch a business here. This is targeted at entrepreneurs who will be able to launch or expand a business and be able to pay the loan off, and ideally create new jobs in their area. Like you said, it's not a charity, and to be able to operate on the same concept here in the States, you would have to accept far more unpaid loans, which people are trying to avoid, and you'd have to lend more like $15,000 and up.

**Vasity** · 06-26-2007, 02:36 PM

hm..I may decide to go with one but average time is 1 year for returnhow much of a percent do you get back 100% vig? or 50% vig on the loan just curious as I like the idea of investing into other streams as well.

**Republikin** · 06-26-2007, 02:41 PM

This is a fantastic example of capitalism when it works and it helps me sleep at night knowing that there are still some companies that are willing to make less profit (compared to giant lenders they might become if they were to cater to big business) in order to promote a philanthropic agenda.

I saw a special on this a while back and how it is helping single mothers in India make much more than a few cents a day. In the vast majority of cases these loans have not only helped a poor family start a business that will sustain them for the foreseeable future but children can now afford to go to school, pay for supplies, etc. Overall, this is a very good idea for developing countries.

**Republikin** · 06-26-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasity

hm..I may decide to go with one but average time is 1 year for returnhow much of a percent do you get back 100% vig? or 50% vig on the loan just curious as I like the idea of investing into other streams as well.

I'm not sure but asking a poor person in a third world country to pay 50-100% on a loan is extortion. Don't expect those kinds of returns. The returns would probably be less than US market rates (just a guess), you could probably invest in a CD (or in todays market bonds would be even better) and get better returns however, I would be willing to take a smaller return on a portion of my portfolio to promote the development of third world countries.

**Vasity** · 06-26-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republikin

I'm not sure but asking a poor person in a third world country to pay 50-100% on a loan is extortion. Don't expect those kinds of returns. The returns would probably be less than US market rates (just a guess), you could probably invest in a CD (or in todays market bonds would be even better) and get better returns however, I would be willing to take a smaller return on a portion of my portfolio to promote the development of third world countries.

hmm. It seems I will agree this would be extortion. I see no reason to build up third world countries though. I am more a loyalist to my own country sort of. I am not a into liberalism about feeling bad about how well my nation is doing. I would only like to make my nation better.

What percent do we get back then 10-20%? I think bonds would be a saffer bet if it would take 1-2 years to pay back the inital loan anyways.

**Republikin** · 06-26-2007, 03:02 PM

Vasity, I generally agree with your sentiments however, I also feel that we (not as a country but as individuals) have a responsibility to our fellow man. When someone else suffers, I suffer too. Also, I think your forgetting that this is done upon a capitalist model which means it's not completely philanthropy, we do expect a return on our investment. From this standpoint, it's a much better solution for average Joe American than just giving money to charities.

10-20% is still high I think. I would not pay this for a small business loan. If I have to guess I would guess between 4-8%. Remember that payment amounts would be based on the rate and terms of the loan, if they are generally 12 month loans than a 10% interest rate would make repayment very unmanageable for these poor people and repayments would not be at 95%+.

**Learning Newbie** · 06-26-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasity

hmm. It seems I will agree this would be extortion. I see no reason to build up third world countries though. I am more a loyalist to my own country sort of. I am not a into liberalism about feeling bad about how well my nation is doing. I would only like to make my nation better.

I'm an unabashed liberal, but I think we can all agree Republican is not a liberal.

There's nothing at all about hating any country, whether it's America or Viet Nam going on. But there also isn't cut-throat competition. Homeless people in America get free meals and sometimes free emergency shelter. Their life isn't wonderful, and has plenty of room to improve, but it's probably better than the billion humans living on less than $1 a day.

More over, a rising tide floats all boats. It's a pretty safe bet none of these people are buying any American goods. A lot of them take loans to expand businesses, some of them selling American exports, like cell phones and car parts. Not all of them, but some, and by lifting people around the world out of abject poverty into lower middle class, we help create more demand for American products around the world. We also give the most poor people in the Middle East an alternative to becoming terrorists and suicide bombers. Some of them are just determined, but others get involved because they know they don't have a future, and know their families will be paid if they blow themselves up in a market. Micro lending won't completely solve the problem, of course, but doing a little to help is better than doing nothing at all.

And of course the real point I'm trying to make is that our fate is interwoven with all of our neighbors'. That's not liberal or conservative, it's just reality.

And I'm not trying to talk you into signing up - if you don't want to, you shouldn't. I'm just correcting what I believe to be factual errors.