<somewhat of a rant ahead>
It's been over half a year since the creation of my forums, and specifically I:

• Use vBulletin (the best forum software, in my opinion)
• Added tons of (cool) plugin features that help increase usability and the uniqueness of my forum
• I offer guests a reduced ad experience (very similar to WT, to try to convince guests to register and participate)
• Have a very unique and attractive design that creates an atmosphere for my topic's feeling
• Purchased vBSEO at the time of creating the forums to have unique forum URL's, trackback options, archive options, etc.
• Was able to convince a few friends and family members to join and post (three or so of my members are, despite not really being "that" interested in the discussions)
• Do my best to maintain an active presence on my board (I just about always have posts that display to everyone that they were made in the last day or two)
• Reply to just about every thread and answer anyone who has a question (with kindness and respect, but that goes without saying)

After 7 months and all the above, I still only have 27 members, and ONLY 8 active members (who I've already stated I'm grateful for participating), other than that, it's virtually dead, traffic-wise. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. (I don't think there's anything more I can do on the actual site, in this current state.) Am I scaring people away somehow? Am I hurting my self somewhere that I haven't noticed? I've read a few of the other forum traffic threads here, and still not getting it, I'm basically clueless here. It's like no matter what I do for my forums, it's still not enough.

I realize that I haven't been doing much off-site marketing, as I have no idea what to do. Forum Marketing is basically a foreign concept to me. Keep in mind also that I'm not concerned with numbers alone, but I thought I'd taken the right steps to have something more of a community by now; with qualitative informative threads and members who either want to learn more educate those that want to.

So what I'm asking is how do I "get my forum's name out there"? How do I go about "building the right, long lasting relationships" with similar minded people (without spamming them, or offering them tangible objects like money or prizes)? I haven't really noticed many blogs / niches / etc. that really cover the topics specifically. What am I missing here? Community marketing just seems so much more different than regular website marketing to me.

I used a script that pulled threads from yahoo answers to get my forum going, it filled it with threads and posts and got rid of the 'ghost town' issue fast.

I wouldn't dream of starting a new one without using the same method in the early days..

Originally Posted by Dave Hybrid

I used a script that pulled threads from yahoo answers to get my forum going, it filled it with threads and posts

Ummmmm, sorry, no thanks

I think you answered your own question with:

I realize that I haven't been doing much off-site marketing

You have to get the word out. Find out where people who like talking about conspiracies are spending their time online and then spend time there so you can build a presence. I'm guessing there are other conspiracy forums out there. How many do you belong to?

Start participating on other sites (forums, blogs, social networking, etc) about conspiracies same as you do here and in time you should be able to attract new members.

Just a quick idea that popped into my head. Change your signature here and elsewhere. Try things like:

Are Aliens Among Us?
Who really shot JFK?
Find out where Elvis was last seen?

and then link directly to the threads instead of the forum home page.

Try to match the text in your sig with the text from an actual thread and link to the thread. And don't limit yourself to one link in your sig. Try 2 or 3. Try different ones at different forums and try rotating the links at the same forum. Drop the ones that aren't attracting clicks and use more of the ones that are.

Maybe pick a thread that's getting some response and link to it while it does. Then as the thread begins to die out switch to another thread.

Originally Posted by vangogh

You have to get the word out. Find out where people who like talking about conspiracies are spending their time online and then spend time there so you can build a presence. I'm guessing there are other conspiracy forums out there. How many do you belong to?

Start participating on other sites (forums, blogs, social networking, etc) about conspiracies same as you do here and in time you should be able to attract new members.

That's just it, I thought I had the perfect idea for a niche, and when I created the forums, I couldn't find ANY other forums dedicated to conspiracies; hardly even blogs, or networks, all I basically saw was a few website that were news oriented, like from here:
http://www.webmaster-talk.com/politi...ternative.html

I've spent hours on Google searching for things like "Conspiracy Blogs", "Conspiracy Networks", etc. and they didn't turn up much, maybe an article or two on more mainstream focused blogs, but that's about it (in which case I left a comment or two).

Besides even if there were a few other communities out there that I missed specifically dedicated to my topics, I don't think the owners would appreciate me trying to steal their visitors.

Originally Posted by vangogh

Just a quick idea that popped into my head. Change your signature here and elsewhere. Try things like:

Are Aliens Among Us?
Who really shot JFK?
Find out where Elvis was last seen?

and then link directly to the threads instead of the forum home page.

Try to match the text in your sig with the text from an actual thread and link to the thread. And don't limit yourself to one link in your sig. Try 2 or 3. Try different ones at different forums and try rotating the links at the same forum. Drop the ones that aren't attracting clicks and use more of the ones that are.

Maybe pick a thread that's getting some response and link to it while it does. Then as the thread begins to die out switch to another thread.

It might work, but the primary forums I belong to already know about my CF.

Concerning the signature link ideas, are you saying to do it at places like WT so it will attract more people (even though this is a webmaster forum)? Because as I said the main forums I belong to already know about my CF (via my sig, a few "review my forum" threads, etc.), and I don't want to register with new ones and join with the sole intent of sig link dropping towards them.

So basically, I guess I don't know where to look for potential markets without spamming existing communities, or just finding a "proper way" to promote my forums.

Are you sure you searched. I did a quick search for conspiracy forum and see more than enough to join.

You wouldn't be actively stealing members, but I'm assuming some of these forums will let you have a signature. Just like we always say here. If you actively participate in a forum people will eventually click on your sig link.

People who are members of webmaster forums aren't the same audience that will want to become members of a conspiracy forum. Obviously there's some overlap, but the majority of your market is spending time at different forums.

Knowing you have CF forum and being enticed to click on a link and visit it are two different things. You have to do more than just let people know you exist. You have to persuade them to visit your site.

Your current signature here says:

Conspiracy Forums - The Place to discuss Conspiracies

It's not exactly the kind of thing that grabs you and makes you want to click. It's even redundant. What else would a conspiracy forum be than a place to discuss conspiracies. It's there and it's factual and I suppose people interested in conspiracy theories now know where they can find a forum. But if it was working well you wouldn't have started this thread.

Compare the CF sig link to the two you have above it. The two above both tell me a lot more about why I should click and what I'll find. Both are more interesting and it wouldn't surprise me if they get more clicks.

The sigs I suggested above may not be the best, but they are more enticing than the one you have now. They ask questions and refer to specific threads instead of the forum as a whole.

Imagine I may not consider myself as someone who's all that interested in conspiracies in general, but I do have an opinion about the shooting of JFK. I couldn't help but be curious about a link asking "Who really shot JFK" The specific is going to pull me in more. When I click I don't need to look around for a JFK thread since you've taken me right there.

So we have me interested in the JFK shooting, clicking on a link that immediately takes me to a thread of people discussing my interest. I'd be instantly engaged and probably have something to say. I'm much more likely under that scenario to actually join your forum and leave a response than I am being taken to the home page and having to look around.

I also don't see the numbers about how active or inactive your forum is. I'm interacting with the site and possibly even a member before I have any idea about how many other people are there.

Do you think you're spamming WT by having a sig link? Why do you think you'd be spamming if you did the same thing at a community that talks about conspiracies? You wouldn't be spamming. You'd just be a member of that community who also runs a similar community.

And while you're at those other communities look around. See what topics people discuss the most. See what those forums do to keep people. See what they aren't doing. It's ok to borrow ideas from them and incorporate the things they do well.

Thanks for the in-depth explanation Steve

Originally Posted by vangogh

Are you sure you searched. I did a quick search for conspiracy forum and see more than enough to join.

That's a lot more than I remember seeing last time I searched, must have to do with different datacenter results or something (although admittedly last time I searched was a few months ago). But still, look at the search "Conspiracy Blogs":
http://www.google.com/search?num=50&...gs&btnG=Search

Not much there that I can build relationships with (they had differing circumstances, like comments being disabled, registering to comment, even lack of updates meant finding those groups of people non-existent).

Originally Posted by vangogh

People who are members of webmaster forums aren't the same audience that will want to become members of a conspiracy forum. Obviously there's some overlap, but the majority of your market is spending time at different forums.

I do realize that, and I wasn't planning on getting most of my members from WT (which is why I said I was clueless about off-site marketing a forum like mine before).

Originally Posted by vangogh

Knowing you have CF forum and being enticed to click on a link and visit it are two different things. You have to do more than just let people know you exist. You have to persuade them to visit your site.

Your current signature here says:

Conspiracy Forums - The Place to discuss Conspiracies

It's not exactly the kind of thing that grabs you and makes you want to click.
..............................
I'm much more likely under that scenario to actually join your forum and leave a response than I am being taken to the home page and having to look around.

I guess I was just figuring that if people would want to discuss conspiracies, that link pointed them in the right direction, it says exactly what it'll take them to (straight to the point), and I'm not clickbaiting of any sorts. Using the examples mentioned in your last post like JFK for example, would only attract people that would want to talk about JFK, I was assuming (It wouldn't be diverse enough).

Not saying I'm right here (as I'm obviously not; via not getting many clicks), it's just the best option I thought I had at the time. I suppose I'll just have to experiment and see what works best in my situation.

Originally Posted by vangogh

I also don't see the numbers about how active or inactive your forum is. I'm interacting with the site and possibly even a member before I have any idea about how many other people are there.

That's because I removed it a little while ago (between now and creating the thread), I figured it would help new registrations if people didn't think it was a dead forum, but yeah, it's 8 members at the moment.

Originally Posted by vangogh

Do you think you're spamming WT by having a sig link? Why do you think you'd be spamming if you did the same thing at a community that talks about conspiracies? You wouldn't be spamming. You'd just be a member of that community who also runs a similar community.

No; actually, I just consider it a form of advertising.

The major difference I'm noticing here between WT and those other conspiracy places is that the ONLY reason I'd be joining them is to attract more people to my board, as I wouldn't have any other alterior motive for joining in the first place besides that reason.

I joined WT to gain knowledge on a great many different areas and topics about websites, not to steal traffic away for a competing Webmaster forum. In my case, I'd view joining one of those other forums as being direct competition. Granted I wouldn't just go on and start making useless posts for sig links, because that's spamming.

Also I should say that I didn't want to go and join and start building reputations on all kinds of different forums; not only would that take A LOT more work (just consider how much I have contributed to WT, 100's of hours) , but I wouldn't want to forum post if it only leads to very little conversion rates.

The search for blogs wasn't great, but try conspiracy theories at Google's blog search. I know they aren't all general conspiracy theory blogs, but they don't have to be.

You mentioned the JFK link appealing to people that only want to talk about JFK. That's kind of my point. Not everyone who joins your forum is necessarily interested in all types of conspiracies. Think about WT. Do you participate in every forum here. I know I don't. For example I don't program in ASP or have any desire to at the moment. I don't think I've ever clicked into that forum.

You don't need to find members who want to discuss every conspiracy there is. You want people to be engaged on your forum. So the JFK fanatic only posts to the JFK threads, but he does it with enough passion to get other people to post there too. If he spends enough time on your forum he'll likely start moving around and getting involved with other topics.

But JFK is what will get him into the forum in the first place.

That's because I removed it a little while ago

I meant it as the person who follows a link directly to a thread instead of the general forum. Inside the threads you don't see the numbers. If you take people directly to a thread instead of the home page they'll be interacting with your forum before even thinking about how active it is.

if people would want to discuss conspiracies, that link pointed them in the right direction

Just down the road from me is a supermarket. I know where it is and how to get there. I am interested in food since I need it to live. I don't shop at that store. I buy my groceries at another supermarket on the opposite end of town from where I am now.

If you build it they will come is not a marketing strategy. That's what you're doing if you view it as the link is there and people who want to talk conspiracies will click. People don't work that way. People need to be persuaded to take action.

...not to steal traffic away for a competing Webmaster forum.

It's not stealing traffic. You're not forcing people to click and there are plenty of people who will post at more than one forum.

...would that take A LOT more work

Yes it would take a lot more work. It takes work to build a site or a forum. You wouldn't have to post at other forums forever and I'm not suggesting you start posting to dozens. Pick one or two.

You can do as much or as little work as you want, but the more you do the more you increase your chance of success. Sorry, but I won't accept it being more work, even A LOT more work, as a valid reason for not doing something.


It's up to you whether or not you want to try some of what I'm suggesting. I can't guarantee any of it will work. But you started this thread because what you have been doing clearly isn't working. Since what you've been doing isn't working it's time to try something else.

Sometimes I wish I could give you more TP for posts like that one (Darn limit, says I have to spread some around first).

Originally Posted by vangogh

I meant it as the person who follows a link directly to a thread instead of the general forum. Inside the threads you don't see the numbers. If you take people directly to a thread instead of the home page they'll be interacting with your forum before even thinking about how active it is.

I was just responding to you "not seeing" the active members count anywhere, I mean, I've logged out before to view the statistics (where are just placed in the regular "What's Going On" section of the homepage).

You think it's a good idea to enable guests and members to see just who is where on the forum in each thread? (Because I, and WT, have that specific option disabled.)

Originally Posted by vangogh

It's not stealing traffic. You're not forcing people to click and there are plenty of people who will post at more than one forum.

Well, OK, maybe "stealing" traffic isn't the right term to use. I guess I was thinking that the tactics are just dirty from a forum owner's POV. For example, I don't think Tim is the "greatest fan" of seeing other webmaster forums (in members signatures). While it isn't against the rules, people will still click and visit (and probably register), thus the forum owner loses traffic and posts.

Originally Posted by vangogh

Yes it would take a lot more work. It takes work to build a site or a forum. You wouldn't have to post at other forums forever and I'm not suggesting you start posting to dozens. Pick one or two.

You can do as much or as little work as you want, but the more you do the more you increase your chance of success. Sorry, but I won't accept it being more work, even A LOT more work, as a valid reason for not doing something.

Concerning the forum marketing, I didn't mean I wasn't willing to actually do the extra work necessary, I was just saying I didn't want to go through with it if the registration rates would remain at a low conversion rate.

And perhaps there were better, more effective ways to seek out potential members than sig link clicking forum posting (Because as we've stated, what I've done now isn't bringing much to my forums).

It looks like you're trying. I'm seeing a new sig so now we'll see if it works. Hopefully it does otherwise you'll track me down and kick my you know what.

I like the way you have the things set up as far as showing how many threads and posts are in each forum. Right now your forum isn't active to the point where it's a selling point so the thinking was to get someone engaged with the forum prior to seeing those numbers. I know some people will see a less that active forum and just move on so why not try to get them involved before they can see the activity.

Yeah stealing probably isn't the best work and I didn't take you literally. I think too many people equate marketing and self promotion with spam and dirty tactics when neither is by default. It really comes down to how aggressive you are with your marketing. We all have points where a marketing tactic makes us feel uneasy, but I think a lot of people have been led to believe that some rather tame and passive self promotion falls into the spam or unethical category.

Like it or not you need to promote yourself if you want to succeed. Even if you have the greatest website in the world you have to let some people know it exists.

I bet you Tim doesn't mind other webmaster forums in sigs. WT will succeed or fail based on its own merits not based on how many other forums owners decide to post here. If someone were to leave here and go to another forum it really has more to do with them not finding what they were looking for here than it is because of a sig link.

I hear you about being willing to do work. I know you weren't just looking to take the lazy way out. But I figured I would hammer home the point anyway. You just can't know whether or not you'll get the conversions through the sig links until you try. I'm guessing you have at least some interest in conspiracies since you started the forum so it stands to reason you'll enjoy posting to other forums too.

You really could pick a couple and spend an hour a week at each. It won't take that long for you to gain respect at those other forums. Think of when you see someone new here. How many posts does it really take to tell if the person is going to be a valuable member.

And again I can't guarantee the idea will work. It was something that came to mind when I was writing my first post in this thread. I think it's a good idea though and it's something to try. It's definitely not the only way to attract new members, but it's one way. You try it and see what happens and generate ideas for what else you can do.

No worries about the TP. Always appreciate, never necessary, and certainly not the reason I'm happy to help you if I can.

If you find that there is a decided lack of conspiracy blogs, isn't that the perfect opportunity? I would imagine that you have quite a few opinions on conspiracies yourself otherwise you wouldn't have started a conspiracy forum, so why not write a few articles? As a strategy, put a prominent link to a forum post discussing your article at the end of every article. Then end each article either with a really strong opinion or with an open-ended question. Either method should help start some good discussions.

Obviously I have some (if not a heavy) interest in conspiracies (via starting the forum and actively engaging members in conversation).

Originally Posted by vangogh

It looks like you're trying. I'm seeing a new sig so now we'll see if it works. Hopefully it does otherwise you'll track me down and kick my you know what.

I hope so too. I've never tried it before, so I have no idea what kind of results it will bring. I wonder though, would it be a wise idea to link to a thread with almost no posts, or a very active thread, with say over 20 posts? (As I have one of each in my sig right now.)

Originally Posted by vangogh

I like the way you have the things set up as far as showing how many threads and posts are in each forum. Right now your forum isn't active to the point where it's a selling point so the thinking was to get someone engaged with the forum prior to seeing those numbers. I know some people will see a less that active forum and just move on so why not try to get them involved before they can see the activity.

What did you mean by "getting them involved"? Wouldn't they have to register before they can do anything?

I know the numbers aren't that high for "attracting more activity", but off the top of my head, it would require too much custom coding (beyond my php scope) to implement "invisiblelizing" those numbers, which just about every other forum has enabled. Even I'd find it kind of weird to see a vBulletin Forum that "doesn't" have those thread and post counts there.

Originally Posted by vangogh

You really could pick a couple and spend an hour a week at each. It won't take that long for you to gain respect at those other forums. Think of when you see someone new here. How many posts does it really take to tell if the person is going to be a valuable member.

And again I can't guarantee the idea will work. It was something that came to mind when I was writing my first post in this thread. I think it's a good idea though and it's something to try. It's definitely not the only way to attract new members, but it's one way. You try it and see what happens and generate ideas for what else you can do.

I think the other primary forum I belong to (Steve Pavlina) has people that are very into conspiracy / philosophy / Personal Development sort of topics, and a few of my members are already from there. Granted though, I haven't posted as much there in recent months (due to other things I've been working on), and the conversion rates haven't been very high there, either.

Originally Posted by VirtuosiMedia

If you find that there is a decided lack of conspiracy blogs, isn't that the perfect opportunity? I would imagine that you have quite a few opinions on conspiracies yourself otherwise you wouldn't have started a conspiracy forum, so why not write a few articles? As a strategy, put a prominent link to a forum post discussing your article at the end of every article. Then end each article either with a really strong opinion or with an open-ended question. Either method should help start some good discussions.

I actually had that idea on my mind, but wasn't sure if it was a "good" step to take or not. As in, should my blog (lightningshock), which isn't as conspiracy-focused (although I could surely go into that direction, because I don't think blogs really have to have "niches" or "restrictions" of any kind). It'd be like self-self-promotion of sorts.

Another feature of vB s that it can read RSS feeds and automatically create a thread based around it. So I could create a Conspiracy Category on my blog, create a new category on vBulletin as a destination for these new threads, and thus blog readers of mine would be sent over a bridge between my two websites. This sort of function is similar to what Steve Pavlina already does.

Maybe I could even create a premium membership of sorts where members could have their own conspiracy blogs discussed in my forum category, it'd be a win-win I suppose.

The only downside I can see to this is that the groups may not blend well; as my satirical, more rant-oriented blog may not be best audience for my conspiracy forums, as they're more serious in nature.

Thoughts?

Host a blog dedicated only to conspiracies on your conspiracy forums site.

If that's all I'm doing, wouldn't I be better off just creating threads with really long opening posts? The discussions are already right there, and I wouldn't have to focus on promoting ANOTHER website.

I'd say it doesn't hurt to try. Just download Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal or another free software and see what effect it has. I'm not sure if there is an SEO difference between forum posts and articles, but some people might prefer an article format if they're coming from a search engine. For your articles, I would suggest heavily citing sources.

James I agree with everything VM is saying about a blog. If there aren't many then you can be the conspiracy blog. However I think there are probably more out there than you think. You might need to be a little more creative in searching for them.

But I agree you should make it a standalone blog instead of attaching it to your current blog. Keep it more focused and relevant to the one topic.

It's not so much that you're promoting another website, but rather using each site to help promote the other. With the way vB picks up rss you could write a blog post and then have people go to the forum to comment. A couple of examples of sites essentially doing the same are:

Search Engine Land - comments are left on Sphinn

Search Engine Guide - has comments on the posts, but also posts snippets of articles as thread starters on Small Business Ideas Forum

Wouldn't they have to register before they can do anything?

Yes, but they'll have made the decision to join prior to seeing the numbers. They'll be engaged in reading and likely thinking of replies to the thread. Not everyone will sign up of course, but reading a thread on a topic of interest is much more engaging than scanning the home page of the forum.

And I'm not suggesting at all that you should hide any of the numbers. Leave them as they are. My point is more to highlight other things that have a better chance of convincing someone to join.

Hi there

Starting a forum from scratch is a very painful process, for many many months, my forums were dead, and it was hard to get people to register, i did all of what u said in ur first post, its difficult to say what the turning point was, but i think it was just time really, i kept doing the right things, building my site and adding stuff to make my forums and my website better.

So really i think your on the right track, just gotta hang in there while your forums are quiet.

Maybe you could make up your own fake conspircys or get some people to suggest some ? nothing special just something really stupid that will make people laugh, and want to show it to others, doesnt have to be factual ?

Once you can get a roll of peopel coming back, it tends to continue from there.

Woc