Suggestions and Feedback

**jamestl2** · 02-01-2008, 09:09 PM

Alright, got some more ideas for WT:

Maybe go through the Website Review and blogging forums and move all the "Review my blog" Threads to the "Blog Review" Forum. It will help give that forum some substance, and people will be able to choose more blogs to review from, and they'll be able to post their own blog review thread in it easier.

I think there should be some sort PageRank Sticky thread (for both the Google AND the SEO forums) the number of threads that exist pertaining to PR, is getting somewhat ridiculous. (And perhaps merge all those existing ones.)

Where's the Tools? I click on the "Tools" link at the top, and all we have is a "Free Keyword Suggestion Tool". What's up with that?

Do we really have to have that Banner at the TOP of the forum? It's kind of annoying there. Maybe we could move it to the bottom?

Also at the bottom, the Copyright, vbSEO, etc. information is a little hard to read. Maybe make it a darker color?

Do we need multiple buttons going to the same destination? I noticed that we have a "Forum Home" Link at the top, a "Webmaster Forum" Link at the bottom, and clicking the logo will take you home. Also, the "We Share Ad Revenue!" Link sometimes disappears.

Postbit Modification: Maybe we could spice things up a bit and add a new field to everyone's posts. Some examples I was thinking of were "Occupation:" and "Threads Started:".

I was also thinking maybe we should increase the post count for PM access. A few people seem to make a bunch of stupid posts just so they can get five posts in. I was thinking maybe raise it to 10 or even 15 posts to gain access to the system.

One more thought I had was that was that the WT Rules should be updated. They haven't been edited since November of 2005, and I'm sure there's been a few modifications to them since that time, right?

**Mooofasa** · 02-02-2008, 01:47 PM

I like the point about moving the blog review topics to the Blog Review forum. I intentionally created a review topic outside of that subforum so that it would receive more input.

As for the banner, Tim said he would be doing something about it. Personally, I don't see how it's helping to generate revenue when it's just shoved in there.

We Share Ad Revenue only appears on the home page for me.

I think Occupation was around a few years ago, can't really remember much from them days. Other than we used to have a kick-*** sidebar which was INTUITIVE. I say bring it back!

**vangogh** · 02-04-2008, 07:55 PM

James didn't you get the memo? The mods voted to forbid you from making any more suggestions.

As far as moving all the blog review posts I just want to remind you that the mods are all volunteers. If I could think of an quick way to move the threads I have no problem with doing it, but I can't think of an easy way and I have plenty of other things to do with my time that I consider more important. I can't speak for the other mods, but I have a hunch they would feel the same way.

If you want to go through the threads and list them all with a link to each I'll go in and move them as my time allows. Feel free to PM me a list. I have no problem moving the threads. For me it's the amount of time it will take to move them.

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We do already have one sticky about PR. We're still going to get more and more threads started about it too. Most people don't read the stickies. Think, too, of all the threads started where an answer already exists if someone took the time to search for it. I think the many threads on the same topic are just the nature of forums.

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At the moment the keywords tool is the only one there. I think Tim had or has plans on adding more, but I think he's been busy with other things. I'm not sure what his future plans are for the tools, but I think he still wants to add more.

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I'm with you on the extra banner ad. Again I'll have to defer to Tim on this one.

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The copyright info is hard to read, but I'm not sure how important it is to make it more readable. I just highlight all the text if I feel the need to read it.

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I think the multiple buttons make sense. Different people will find different links more usable. I don't see how removing some makes the forum more usable.

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We used to have more information in the postbit area. I forget why some of the info was removed, but I think it was done in the interest of saving some space. For shorter posts it definitely saves space to have less in the postbit area and the information is still available if you click through to someone's profile page.

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I know the useless posts people make to get PM access can be annoying, but increasing the count needed would just lead to more useless posts not less. I think we'd also prefer not to punish the honest forum members in order to stop a few of the people who abuse the system.

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I thought we had updated the rules, though I might be thinking how we moved them all into one central thread. Is there anything in the rules you think don't apply or rules that we should add? I think we'd all be happy to update the rules if they needed an update. I think a few things have been added, though it's possible the date wasn't updated.

**jamestl2** · 05:41 PM

Whaaaaat!?!?! I can't give any more suggestions? That's BS (Thanks for the feedback, Steven)

Concerning reviews, you can use my "Super-Special Listing Technique" to find out which ones belong there:
http://www.webmaster-talk.com/search...earchid=646882

I know this won't get all of them, but at least it's a start.

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When we have multiple forum buttons, I think they just take up extra space, and may confuse more people on where they'd like to go. Do we really NEED the extra buttons?

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With PM's, I think it may actually give us LESS useless posts, 10 or 15 isn't really a big deal for regular members, and it would encourage others to become more active, PM spammers, would be easier to catch, and members would be more likely to trust those with more posts. (And maybe becuase we still get plenty of PM Spammers who'll abuse the system) Just my opinion here, of course.

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Also, with the rules, I didn't have any specific changes in mind, but for the main rules page:
http://www.webmaster-talk.com/news-a...rum-rules.html

It hasn't been updated since 2005, I just figured there were some changes to the rules since then. OK, here's maybe one thing I noticed, in the "Other Ads, Offers" Rules section, it states:

"If you're not interested, don't reply" = I noticed some do reply even if they aren't, sometimes the OP offer will be ridiculous, or illegal, so we respond anyway, to help them out and whatnot.

**vangogh** · 07:37 PM

Your super special listing link didn't take me anywhere. Want to try again. I'll be happy to move what I can.

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I think in this case the several links back to the home page make sense. The logo is going to be there link or not. Most people here can probably figure out it also links back to the home page, but maybe some won't. The Forum Home link doesn't really take up extra space since the bar it's in is still going to be there due to the links at the right. And I'd say it makes a lot of sense to have the link at the top and the bottom. It helps to not have to scroll up if you happen to be at the bottom of the page.

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I don't see the spammers stopping because we raise the post count needed for PMs. If they're willing to make 5 useless posts they've be just as willing to make 10 or 15. Those posts are usually copy/paste so it's not as though they take a lot of time to create.

There are genuine members who wish we didn't have the 5 post limit.

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I could have sworn we did update the rules, but maybe not. I'll bring it up in the back room and see if others think we need to give them an update. A review couldn't hurt.

Update: I just posted a thread for the mods to discuss a rules update. Give us a little time to talk about it and make any necessary changes.

I actually follow that don't reply rule. There are offers in there that I might flag as spam elsewhere or think are junk, but I think that forum is meant as a catch-all to keep those offers out of the other forums. I figure since the rules say it's ok to post most anything in there no matter how useless then I don't argue. I think that's a good rule actually.

Illegal stuff should be removed, but I think in many ways it's unfair for the rest of us to decide if an offer is good or bad. I might think an offer is worthless and you might think it too, but it's possible someone else is looking for it. I also think most people here are smart enough to see through the offers.

**jamestl2** · 02-05-2008, 07:53 PM

Grrrr, it was doing that earlier to. All I did was a search for the term "blog" (In titles only) under the "Website Review and Suggestions" forum. It brought up most of the results this way.

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Maybe for the links, I just found it odd that there was the option to click on the "forum home" at the top, since the logo was right below it.

Although another thing I was thinking about is the UserCP, Quick Links, etc. link bar could go at the very top too (in the black bar), that way, all of those types of links could all be in one bar.

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I just figured that if we increased the PM post count, the spammers wouldn't even bother to make that many more posts, since five seems like a pretty small number to me.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

I actually follow that don't reply rule.

Except these threads, as an example, right?

:
http://www.webmaster-talk.com/others...arch-term.html
http://www.webmaster-talk.com/others...e-traffic.html
http://www.webmaster-talk.com/others...portunity.html

Anyways, I'm just saying that it can be a good idea to post in them and help others out in these types of threads, even if it's "technically" against the rules.

**vangogh** · 02-05-2008, 08:16 PM

True there are exceptions to the no reply rule. Though you'll notice I didn't tell either of the people in the first two posts they shouldn't post. In one I actually asked for ebook because the OP asked for a review and in the second I was actually trying to help the person get more response.

The last one I thought might be an attempt at selling something that was free so I questioned it and it turned out to be real.

So technically yes I did reply, but it wasn't just to tell someone I don't think their service is good. And yes what you're saying does make sense. I think the rule was meant for people not to respond with things like your offer sucks, but let's face it we all do that sometimes too.

Maybe a rewording is a good idea.

I just moved 4 pages worth of blog reviews into the blog review section. That was easy I thought you meant to move the ones that didn't mention blog in the title since I'm sure there are a few. I'll keep my eye out for more.

**TimSchroeder** · 02-06-2008, 03:07 PM

Thanks for all your suggestions. As you know, we have used several of your suggestions in the past.

One note about the "Tools" section is that it's being revamped and we will have several additional tools in that section.

**jamestl2** · 02-06-2008, 03:20 PM

Glad to help

One more thing concerning the blog reviews, there's a couple in the blogging forum too, where you could do a similar search as before (Search for "review" (in titles only) under the blogging forum).

**vangogh** · 02-06-2008, 07:34 PM

You just keep asking and asking. I try to get out and you pull me back in.

I only found 3 blog review threads in the blogging forum and I moved them all over to the blog review forum. There was one asking a question about paying for a blog review and it seemed to be in the right place so I left it.

Did you see more in the blogging forum?

**jamestl2** · 02-06-2008, 08:49 PM

No, that's what I meant by saying there were only "a couple" in the blogging forum that I saw (just those three, I guess, I didn't remember the exact number).

I'll let you know if I spot any more.

**vangogh** · 02-07-2008, 07:53 PM

Thanks. Keep 'em coming and I'll keep 'em moving.

**jamestl2** · 02-11-2008, 03:13 PM

Alright, one more thought pertaining to the "Website Review and Suggestions" Rules:

Should the people that review rule-breaking threads (ones the mods haven't caught yet) actually go through with it?

I posted a bunch of times over there explaining the rules to them, yet some still give suggestions about those sites. Then even later their threads make break the rules, as those 3 reviews they gave earlier may not be there (as they became deleted), then in turn their threads (unintentionally) may break the rules.

**vangogh** · 08:34 PM

I've never really been sure the best way to treat the threads asking for review when the person hasn't taken the time to review three other sites first.

I see some getting reported, but by the time I look there have already been a number of replies and I figure the replies can serve some use to people reading.

I've tended to take the 3 reviews first as a guideline more than a strict rule, though that's just my view. It's hard to police too. If someone hasn't made 3 posts it's easy enough. We could set the forum so that 3 posts are needed before starting a thread there. If someone hasn't made too many posts it's not too hard to look through their posting history and see if they've reviewed 3 sites first, though often I find it's 3 one line 'looks great' sort of posts.

Once a person has made a certain number of posts the effort to look through them to see if they've reviewed three other sites seems more to me than any offense caused, by asking for the review without the prior reviews.

**chrishirst** · 02-11-2008, 08:37 PM

pre-mod on new threads might be an idea for the review forum to stop that happening,

**vangogh** · 02-11-2008, 08:44 PM

Yeah I think setting a post limit would significantly help. Can we set things so you need to have made at least 3 posts in that specific forum before starting a new thread there?

**jamestl2** · 02-11-2008, 08:48 PM

I also think the plugin I mentioned a while back would solve this problem:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=123002

something to look at

In the meantime though, a post requirement does sound like a good idea, but if that's what the staff wants to do, you could give it an "either / or situation", for example you must have made:
3 reviews already
Or
At least 10 Posts (Or whatever number the staff wants to have)

**DaveMo~** · 02-17-2008, 10:36 AM

Oh gee, now I know how you were banned from making more suggestions. Don't you have some other forum that you'd like to post in....like the Ads forum?

Hahahaha!

We did have a hack that that a person couldn't make a thread in the site review forum until after making 3 quality posts (we couldn't do much about the quality part except remove the junk ones). This was and still should be a hard and fast, written in stone, rule. It used to be that we received lots of threads for sites wanting reviews, but they didn't want to review or do anything but sit back and wait on reviews. And some of these threads did not even want reviews, they were just external links for their sites.

We might not still have that hack due to the last upgrade, but that's something for us to check back into.

The bad thing about the minimum post count is that someone could get their minimum post count in some other forum and that wouldn't help everyone to get reviews.

BTW, we have been doing what you've suggested via the link by the promotions and groups. After we make some changes, the "advanced permissions" may be the plug in that we will do to help with that. I like how it works.

Dave

**jamestl2** · 02-18-2008, 02:26 PM

Here's a couple more ideas for the staff to chew on for awhile

:

Since it doesn't seem like many people bother to read the stickies, why not post the links (like Toolbar PR, website reviews, etc.) in the Welcome PM, that way hopefully everybody will get a sense of what's important to read, and they'll get more exposure. But I do realize that not everybody that signs up will just to ask those questions, but they could still help.

Or (since people are still asking for reviews without meeting the requirements, and they're sometimes hard to spot) you could just delete the threads where people don't even have 4 posts, as they OBVIOUSLY haven't followed the rules (well ones that don't have good, detailed responses yet).

Why people still make those posts in the rule-breaking threads, I don't know. Maybe you could edit the rules to say something like "Don't review threads that break the rules, as they'll most likely be deleted" or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMo~

Oh gee, now I know how you were banned from making more suggestions. Don't you have some other forum that you'd like to post in....like the Ads forum? Hahahaha!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMo~

We did have a hack that that a person couldn't make a thread in the site review forum until after making 3 quality posts (we couldn't do much about the quality part except remove the junk ones). This was and still should be a hard and fast, written in stone, rule. It used to be that we received lots of threads for sites wanting reviews, but they didn't want to review or do anything but sit back and wait on reviews. And some of these threads did not even want reviews, they were just external links for their sites.

The hack itself may even have been updated since then, which would have even more options to it, not sure how long ago it's been installed here, but you'd have to look at it's update logs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMo~

The bad thing about the minimum post count is that someone could get their minimum post count in some other forum and that wouldn't help everyone to get reviews.

This is what Steven was saying, even though it won't make them post in the Reviews forum, they'll still have to contribute to WT in some form or another.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMo~

BTW, we have been doing what you've suggested via the link by the promotions and groups. After we make some changes, the "advanced permissions" may be the plug in that we will do to help with that. I like how it works.

Kool

**vangogh** · 02-18-2008, 10:28 PM

James I'm not sure links to the stickies would get them read any more than they are now. And like you said those threads aren't relevant to everyone or maybe not relevant at the moment they're signing up. People are going to ask the same questions over and over at forums. It's just how things work.

As far as deleting the threads if no one else has posted in there then sure I don't mind deleting them, but once I've seen a bunch of people already reviewing the site in question I figure it's ok to leave it.