Hi.

I want to take the plunge and learn how to get a DB running on a new site. I know almost nothing about databases however, and am really wondering where to start. I am fine with HTML and CSS, have a tiny inkling of javascript and can build simple databases in Access, but I fear this knowledge is not enough for what I want to do!

I want to have a database on my site, which contains fairly basic stuff like personal details and a few numbers to crunch, which is searchable by registered users. I guess the database will also contain the information needed in order to be able to register users too - I also don't know anything about how to get people to register on a site...

I've got two sites running at the mo, and I see from cPanel X that I have access to 4 things that look useful - MySQL databases, MySQL database wizard, phpMyAdmin and Remote MySQL. I have had a little play around but very quickly got very lost and have not been able to find any useful help on the web

So, can someone point me in the right direction about WHAT I need to learn to achieve my aims, and WHERE I can learn about it?! Happy to learn from websites or books if anyone can recommend one please! I really need something that doesn't already assume I am a webmaster, as everything I find is so full of abbreviations I can't even get past the first paragraph!

Sorry for the epic post.

Originally Posted by magicvw

Hi.

I want to take the plunge and learn how to get a DB running on a new site. I know almost nothing about databases however, and am really wondering where to start. I am fine with HTML and CSS, have a tiny inkling of javascript and can build simple databases in Access, but I fear this knowledge is not enough for what I want to do!

I want to have a database on my site, which contains fairly basic stuff like personal details and a few numbers to crunch, which is searchable by registered users. I guess the database will also contain the information needed in order to be able to register users too - I also don't know anything about how to get people to register on a site...

I've got two sites running at the mo, and I see from cPanel X that I have access to 4 things that look useful - MySQL databases, MySQL database wizard, phpMyAdmin and Remote MySQL. I have had a little play around but very quickly got very lost and have not been able to find any useful help on the web

So, can someone point me in the right direction about WHAT I need to learn to achieve my aims, and WHERE I can learn about it?! Happy to learn from websites or books if anyone can recommend one please! I really need something that doesn't already assume I am a webmaster, as everything I find is so full of abbreviations I can't even get past the first paragraph!

Sorry for the epic post.

You are basically on the right track...YOUR best bet is to try-by-example. Get a hold of some free php scripts ( from hotscripts.com for example ) that connect to a mysql db and from there, you just need to play around with the code...NEVER be shy with the code, they are FREE so make as many mistakes as you want...

Thanks but I am not at the stage yet where I woulf know what to do with a code! I need a basic grounding - right from the beginning. Any thoughts?

Originally Posted by magicvw

can build simple databases in Access, but I fear this knowledge is not enough for what I want to do!

What, specifically, do you want to do? Trying to make a working database system with no spec and no goal and no exit criteria, is an excuse to get frustrated. How will you know when you've succeeded? You won't, you can't, because there's no idea of what success is.

Start by making a goal. Start with a user login system. In order to do that, you need to make

1. A database
2. A table of users, with some kind of IsActive flag to let your system know whether they're allowed to log in or not
3. A login stored procedure, to take the user name and password (or hash!) and validate that it's correct, and allowed
4. A page to collect these 2 pieces of info from the user, and submit them to the database procedure, then get and deal with the answer ("I'm sorry, you've entered a bad password and username combination." vs a redirect)

That's pretty simple, but will give you a good end to end overview.

Thanks LearningNewbie - what I want to learn to do is have a database of members with simple details like name, interests, area etc, and have a form on the site which can be used to search for various criteria like area or interests and show up the results. I know I need to learn a lot, because I even your 4 basic instructions above baffled me So I want to know where I can learn how to do this - from scratch. I could make an Access database to store that kind of info and run a query to get my results, but I have no idea how to get a database online or let other people search it, or how to create a form for them to search with. This is what i need to learn but I can't find any help anywhere! I find lots of pages telling me how to set up a database in Cpanel x using mysql - fine, I have done that, but I can't actually use the database in a useful way because I can't find any tutorials on how to make the database searchable and show results etc. Is is really hard?

Vicky the database is just storing the information. You'll want to use a server side language to interact with the database. Given your server you'll probably be using PHP as the programming language. I didn't see you mention PHP, so I'll make the assumption it's not one of your current skills.

I found it easiest to learn both through books and there are plenty that will cover both in one book.

The basic idea is you would use PHP to open a connection to the database and access the tables. Then you'd use PHP to query the database to read from and write to the database. It's not necessarily hard, but it can be confusing at first. I know I was confused by it all at first.

You could start at W3Schools. Look down on the left under the section for Server Scripting. There are tutorials for both SQL and PHP. You'll probably want more, but W3Schools is often a good place to start and maybe the info there will be enough to get you set up.

Originally Posted by magicvw

Thanks LearningNewbie - what I want to learn to do is have a database of members with simple details like name, interests, area etc, and have a form on the site which can be used to search for various criteria like area or interests and show up the results.

I'm probably going into too much (implementation) detail right now. But, let's look at an easy, good way to model this. We'll use two tables, which are like spreadsheets, grids of rows and columns. One we'll call user details, and the other user interests, since each user has the potential to have more than one (many) interests.

[code]
Create Table UserDetails (
UserID int autoNumber,
FirstName text,
LastName text,
Area text
[etc]
)

Create Table UserInterests (
UserID int,
InterestID int autoNumber,
Interest text

)
[code]

Originally Posted by magicvw

So I want to know where I can learn how to do this - from scratch.

I do this stuff for a living, so I don't know any beginner tutorials. Sorry. I haven't looked at them in a very long time.

Originally Posted by magicvw

I could make an Access database to store that kind of info and run a query to get my results, but I have no idea how to get a database online or let other people search it, or how to create a form for them to search with.

Probably, you can't. Access needs a Windows Server to do what you're talking about, and the most common (because they're cheap) servers are Linux, which run the MySQL database engine. This gives you two choices

1. Dump your Access knowledge and use MySQL and PHP, or
2. Get a Windows Server host

#2 is ideal. That lets you set up the database on your desktop at your leisure, then upload it (by FTP - built into Windows Explorer) to your web site. You can download a fresh copy, work on it, and upload it - very easily, by drag and drop, through your operating system. You'll also be able to build web pages that dynamically build themselves from info in your database, the best of both worlds.

Also, if you have Access 2000 (?) or higher, it has a tab called Data Access Pages, which will let you build dynamic web pages the same way (with the mouse) you build forms and reports. This isn't ideal, but, it lets you tackle the learning curve 1 step at a time.

Originally Posted by magicvw

This is what i need to learn but I can't find any help anywhere! I find lots of pages telling me how to set up a database in Cpanel x using mysql - fine, I have done that, but I can't actually use the database in a useful way because I can't find any tutorials on how to make the database searchable and show results etc. Is is really hard?

It's not really hard, but you need to learn some new concepts. Which is why I'd recommend using Access, since it's already familiar to you. First step, look into queries with parameters. This lets you define how a search works, but, not have to put in what exactly to search for, until the query runs. That lets you build a search (web) form with a "find" box, that runs your query.

OK - I have plenty to work on for now - thanks very much for the replies. Time to do some work!

Hi magicvw, I know exactly where you are, so I understand your frustration, personally I would suggest that before you even write one line of code you get some free video tutorials from a place like 3d buzz http://www.3dbuzz.com once in there look for a section called Web Design, btw you may need to register but as far as I am aware it is all free so start from there.

If you need other video training resources you would generally have to pay for them but try search vtc (Virtual Training Company) there is an old one that is still great by Joshua Mostafa http://www.vtc.com/products/PHP-tutorials.htm this lot should keep you going for at least a week or two, if you need any help finding more training resources give me a pm and I will see what I can do to help.

Most importantly, I hope that you have a passion to do this cause if you do not you are going to feel as though you are smashing your head against a brick wall, just carry on trying and you will come right.

PS: Sometimes "blue frogs" for Macintosh or "µ"s for pc may help you find your way.

Thanks so much Scorpioserve! I do have a passion to do this - I just hope I can understand it all! I will check out the vids - thanks again.