I have an important project I am about to embark on. I am going to need to find coders to assist me in building the script/backend for a website. It will require a secure login, a control panel for 2 different types of users (the 'submitters' or 'requestors' and the 'receivers' or 'vendors') They will all have different views of the same things and none of them will be able to correspond with each other - they will be anonymous to each other. I anticipate this to grow rather large with a reasonably high volume of registered users who will use this site probably daily, maybe a few thousand or so .... with 95% of those being in the first group of users listed before as 'submitters'. I will also require a message board that will be inside the password protected area, email functionality in my webmaster CP (email user or group, spam everyone, etc ... similar to how phpBB has) Also I will have automated email confirmations for various transaction based actions and warnings, payment links, etc.

Soooo .... to keep from rambling:
It has become aparent to me that most of the larger "enterprise" types of sites all run on ASP/MS SQL (IIS) and some of the more mom and pop sites all run on open source products like PHP/mySQL, Linux, Apache .... makes me wonder ... should I do it right the first time and go the ASP route? Is it more robust? What are the limitations of one or the other? When my business grows, it will not behoove me to save a few bucks on the coding if the thing doesn't work right or can not keep up with traffic. I don't want a cheesy operation so I am investigating all I can before I even start to create my requirements documentation.

BTW: this is going to be somewhat of a B2B business - very transactional and I was to make it as scalable as possible so that means upgrades and changes along the way as the business needs change.

Any help would be appreciated

- Regards

Take a look at ASP.NET (www.asp.net) basically the next version of ASP from Microsoft. Does more or less exactly what you need, with minimum ammount of hassle. Highly reccomend it for web based applications, and it's definitly scaleable.

It has become aparent to me that most of the larger "enterprise" types of sites all run on ASP/MS SQL (IIS) and some of the more mom and pop sites all run on open source products like PHP/mySQL, Linux, Apache ....

I couldn't agree more.

"It has become aparent to me that most of the larger "enterprise" types of sites all run on ASP/MS SQL (IIS) and some of the more mom and pop sites all run on open source products like PHP/mySQL, Linux, Apache ....

I couldn't agree more.
"

I disagree, many large companies do run Windows based OS's and thus will tend to go for Windows solutions which tend to include IIS, asp etc.

But alas i do not see IIS running as top webserver out there, nor does .NET or ASP have a large chunk of the developer market for php along with many other languages are still prevalent and going strong.

So it would seem that companies with a little backing do not even put any time into deciding what technology to use, they run windows so they automagically go for windows based products. Which is all fine and dandy but Windows based solutions are not the be all and end all of the market they are simply another way of getting done what any other language can do.

I aint much of a MySql fan I like Postgres which is a free oracle-ish DB with many features that can compete with any Windows DB that you have to cough up for. Interesting to note though, Many of these big companies use Oracle which is normally hosted on what platform ?

Perhaps mom and pops know best.

"Should I do it right the first time and go the ASP route?"

Your already on the wrong path if thats the type of question your putting to yourself. I sincerly hope your right path turns out wrong or better still you think before you act.

Remember Windows based technologies are not the be all and end all in this world.

Ibbo

Actually, companies tend to pick technologies based on other things besides functionality. Yes, other lanquages can do what ASP/ASP.NET can do, but there are other factors to consider. Support, for one.

When I joined my current company, some bod who was an open source fan decided to go and set up the company with a web server all based on Unix/Apache/PHP etc. which was fine at the time, it did what it needed to do and the guy was there to support it. Now he's left and the comapny is lumbered with a box that they don't know how to use and don't know where to go for support should it go wrong. Sure, we could post a message on a forum and hope that one of the open source people reads it and replies in a few days, provided we even know what to ask in the first place... but when the main company website is down, it means money is being lost, and hoping for a tacky soloution from some so-called programmer half way across the world just isn't good enough.

I've now bought a new server and put Windows 2003 on it, and am in the process of migrating the website to that platform. Now should I leave, the company will know exactly where to go for support (Microsoft) and even have a basic understanding of how the thing works. Recruiting somebody to fill my position won't be a problem either, due to the pool of qualified Microsoft professionals with paper qualifications and prooveable experience.

Minaki,

That scenario could well work both ways, as I know very little about IIS and .NET in general I too would find myself in a pickle should I find myself in a similar position. I can hear you screaming but WE got paid for support. Well I aint hear to make myself out as the guru of open source for never in ten life times would I be able to understand linux in its entirety but I dont have to.

I need to know about 2 daemons (apache and a DB server) and to be honest my ISP manages apache so perhaps some syntax for a .htaccess file would suffice, I know several programming languages (including c# which i have up and running in Fedora Core 4 through mono "no expert with it either").

Yet I have an extensive library of modules I have created for use with various sites (Firm beleiver in design patters and software reuse I am) so I now also have my own components (to phrase it in .NET terms). I can do anything .NET can do and with my own components I can do it quickly unless I have no module that fits the job.

So while I may be ready to sit my RHCE exam I in no way require it to do my job.

So if I bought Windows 2003 I beleive i could get it up and running without falling into any pits as you would do with a linux box but then if you sat me infront of a sparc I would be able to acheive the same thing as I would with any OS you threw at me (I think)

Which is no doubt why windows developers are so closed minded about other technologies. I aint here to put anyone down (bit of a laugh now and then perhaps) but I think they are scared of what they do not know.

Learning IIS and .NET is by no means harder or easier than learning Apache and php (IMHO) yet you mention linux to some and you can only stop them running once they have completed a full circuit of the planet and made it back to you, and then 9 times out of ten you have to trip em up and calm them down.

Lastly,

When interviewing I dont accept whats written on a CV (IMHO they are full of ....). The best way is to put em on the spot and throw a series of tests at them.

Those whom crumble early are no doubt destined for a life of windows development. (which is a developers joke and by no means intended to cause offence)

Good posts mate, I lke em.

Ibbo

Originally Posted by ibbo

"Should I do it right the first time and go the ASP route?"

Your already on the wrong path if thats the type of question your putting to yourself. I sincerly hope your right path turns out wrong or better still you think before you act.

That's my very purpose for asking these questions - This site is going to be something very new in it's particular field and I am quite sure it will be the first time this business model will be introduced. There will be a lot at stake here so it has to be right the first time. If anything goes wrong, it will not take hold and someone more agile than myself will come in and copy my solution, have it up and running in no time while mine fails.... I remember when there were other well known auction sites online before I had ever even heard of eBay and we all know how that ended up.

Not to say mine is going to be that monumental, it will be B2B not B2C however, my question stems from my experience with some of the PHP scripts I have installed myself and have noticed that some are limited. For example, I have a search engine script which also has the funtionality of a web indexing agent and according to the creator of the script, the index is limited to 25,000 pages to be indexed ... I know that sounds like a lot but I can index sites and have that mySQL DB filled up to capacity in an afternoon. Please tell me that this impression I have is a result of ignorance or lack of insight about PHP/mySQL. I guess I have always been under the impression that an ASP site would have extreme speed and capacity .... also, where do I find "professional" PHP programmers .... go to some of the freelancing sites and for all I know, all of these people who claim they can do the job could possibly be some 10 year old kid living in a hut somewhere - Not that I'm saying he can't do the job, just not sure who to trust.....

All of your opinions on this matter are greatly appreciated!

ooohhh, another PHP vs ASP debate

It all boils down to preference and what your comfortable using. Both can do the same jobs just as well as the other. If your not comfortable with the open source movement, and the whole "community support" thing, then you'll want go with ASP. At least with ASP you have somebody to call (microsoft) when there are problems. ASP also allows you to use precompiled DLL's and OCX's for better performance and more security.

If you'll be utilizing heavy database usage though, I would reccommend NOT using mySql. Although it's an excellant RDBMS, I don't think it's ready for enterprise applications. Your better of with Oracle (linux) or SQL Server (windows).

Originally Posted by Anacrusis

ASP also allows you to use precompiled DLL's and OCX's for better performance and more security.

You have touched on another hot button of mine ... security - this particular site is going to have everything under the sun to secure:
Credit Card Numbers
Bank Account Numbers
Social Security Numbers
Client's Sensitive Business information

It would be an Eastern Russian Mobster's hacking delight....

Originally Posted by Anacrusis

If you'll be utilizing heavy database usage though, I would reccommend NOT using mySql. Although it's an excellant RDBMS, I don't think it's ready for enterprise applications. Your better of with Oracle (linux) or SQL Server (windows).

So what you are saying is that mySQL, while a good product may not be able to handle the load if business is booming?

What kinds of hosting entities would I need for say a dedicated server(s) and I'm running Oracle ... that doesn't sound like your run-of-the-mill cPanel/Plesk type of host - sounds like we're talking extreme datacenter types of things (like RackSpace???)???

Yea, definatly dedicated, or if you have the money maybe even colocation. If you'll be getting as much traffic as you say, you may need a couple servers. 1 for the database, 1 for the website and maybe a failover server in case the main one dies for whatever reason. Plus, don't forget about backups, so you might want a file server as well.

If you go with Oracle or SQL Server, you can use stored procedures to handle the sensitive data. That way critical business logic won't be stored in the files on the server, it would be encrypted and precomiled in the database.

Originally Posted by Anacrusis

If you go with Oracle or SQL Server, you can use stored procedures to handle the sensitive data. That way critical business logic won't be stored in the files on the server, it would be encrypted and precomiled in the database.

All of this is a little new to me - I am technically inclined but where would I go to learn more about setting this up? Who are the companies with good reputations I can trust? I seems like I would need to arrange for these things before I even start looking for programmers.