Im sorry if im cluttering your forum with newb questions. Im still learning so bare with me.

I have noticed some pages listed in Google have sub links under the main listing in google. How do you get these and or edit it?

I have checked alot of the SEO tools in other links and submitted to everything imaginable but Google still shows the old sit when the construction image was up. I am trying to get them to do a recrawl of my site but now thinking its just time before they get to it but could be wrong. Also should i be focused on something at the moment before its re crawled by google so that it will take place when it is re crawled.

Grade for yourself I own and run a mortgage company. Arthur Allen Inc.
www.arthuralleninc.com

Let me know and sorry for all the newb questions. Im in reading overload and trying to absorb as much as possible.

Thanks

Newbies are allowed!! The first problem I see is Flash - the search engines don't like it. There was a thread in here about SEO for Flash - I don't have the URL but try a search.

Those sub results in Google happen when two pages on your site match the search query, maybe one of them has to be your home page. ( I'm not sure. ) Those tend to come naturally, but I notice Google only knows about two of your pages. That's a much bigger problem, and when you solve that one, I think the indented results will come naturally.

How often does Google crawl your site? If you don't know, go to https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/siteoverview and sign up. It's free. And useful.

It sounds like however often, it's not enough. The best way you can fix that is to "get more backlinks." ( Hated advice, because it's usually bad advice. ) They probably don't crawl you very often because (A) they tried a few times and your site hadn't changed between them, and (B) Google doesn't think your site is very important. It's nothing personal - there are about 200 million mortgage sites on the web, and most of them are spam. It looks like you're the exception to the rule, though, so you need to make Google understand that. And links pointing at your site, make that GOOD links, are votes for you. When Google sees a few of them ( and the one you posted in your question is one ) it will go back and have another look at you. Don't go crazy and think getting a bunch of links is a miracle cure, but if Google has a really old copy of your site in their cache, I think this is something in particular two or three good links will fix.

In general, I think an average site is crawled every day, but any given page on that site might be more like once every two weeks. So I wouldn't worry too much about what order you do things in - if they come for a visit before you focus on that something else, they'll come back.

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Newbies are allowed!! The first problem I see is Flash - the search engines don't like it. There was a thread in here about SEO for Flash - I don't have the URL but try a search.

Those sub results in Google happen when two pages on your site match the search query, maybe one of them has to be your home page. ( I'm not sure. ) Those tend to come naturally, but I notice Google only knows about two of your pages. That's a much bigger problem, and when you solve that one, I think the indented results will come naturally.

How often does Google crawl your site? If you don't know, go to https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/siteoverview and sign up. It's free. And useful.

It sounds like however often, it's not enough. The best way you can fix that is to "get more backlinks." ( Hated advice, because it's usually bad advice. ) They probably don't crawl you very often because (A) they tried a few times and your site hadn't changed between them, and (B) Google doesn't think your site is very important. It's nothing personal - there are about 200 million mortgage sites on the web, and most of them are spam. It looks like you're the exception to the rule, though, so you need to make Google understand that. And links pointing at your site, make that GOOD links, are votes for you. When Google sees a few of them ( and the one you posted in your question is one ) it will go back and have another look at you. Don't go crazy and think getting a bunch of links is a miracle cure, but if Google has a really old copy of your site in their cache, I think this is something in particular two or three good links will fix.

In general, I think an average site is crawled every day, but any given page on that site might be more like once every two weeks. So I wouldn't worry too much about what order you do things in - if they come for a visit before you focus on that something else, they'll come back.

First off thanks for the help. So adding my link in the right catagories in fee directories is good links or bad? I will put in the time to do what i need i just need to know what to do. Should i change the flash to css? This is the second time i have read that flash is becoming out dated so to speak. Im going to check out the link you just sent me. I understand how the backlinks work and the trading with other sites of same cat. The down side is like you said there are 986235868568265386235 mortgage companies out there and trying to by pass them. Im sure with persistance I will eventually be at the top. I guess to be number one for the keyword mortgage is my main focus. The site has only been up 3 days so i was hoping with all the hits over the past couple of days it would registar it existed. I have 20,000 plus on my myspace account and added the links there and in bullitins but even myspace is becoming nothing but spam now. I need it in a none spam way thought saying that its finally up for anyone wanting to check it out.

I just want to know what im really missing that could hurt me. Looks like im on the right track though.

I have noticed some pages listed in Google have sub links under the main listing in google. How do you get these and or edit it?

You have to have a site that google think is exctly what the searcher is looking for and has a number of pages that will be of interest.

If you search CNN is likely that you are simply looking for the official CNN website.
So Google look at the search term, Think "they want the CNN website". So as the CNN website has a lot of sections (News, Business, Sport) google list these for you.

this is mostly viewed on authority site's like cnn.

I think it has more to do with how well your site matches the search words than anything else. When I Google my name the first two results are my site ( with the second indented ). Or, if I search for one of my photos by name, again I'm the first two results. One is the picture itself, and the next is an article I used it in. Another search ( Olympic Nightfall ) puts my site in the first four results, and then #6 and #7 are a photo critique site it's on.

I would really love to believe Google sees my site as an authority on photography, and interesting places. But I don't think it is ... I have a feeling that's going to take an awful lot more work on my part.

What if i change my site(which is now showing up in google with the updated cache. maybe all the free directories i submitted it too.) and had the index be a front page asking with or without flash and have the meta tages title and description. would this benifit me in showing in top google page?

otimmayo I think the biggest issue is really that you are in a very competitive market. It's going to be hard and possibly take years to show up on the first page some of the more popular keyword phrases.

I'm seeing 14 pages in the Google index for your site and I see a cache data of Feb 20th 2007 so getting crawled and indexed doesn't seem to be the issue. The Flash navigation isn't good, but you have the text links in the footer which compensates.

I don't think you have any links pointing to the site. (Newbie it's fine to tell people they need more links as long as you provide a little more information)

Your page titles aren't optimized at all and I'm going to guess you haven't spent time researching keywords. Page titles are very important. They are probably the most important content you can write when it comes to seo. The page title for your 'how it works' page is "How it Works' Unless you think people will type 'how it works' into a search engine when looking for your services that's not a good title.

You want to use keywords in your page titles, preferably toward the front of the title. Also try to keep the page titles on the shorter side.

Another thing to think about is the site itself. It looks good, but in all honesty there's very little content there. Most links I click take me to a form. I realize your goal is trying to get people to contact you, but most will want more information before they are willing to fill out a form, especially a big one.

What I would do is research some keywords. Have a look at the free tools at WordTracker and KeywordDiscovery. Type in a generic phrase and let the tools lead you into finding more specific phrases. Then work on building content around those phrases. Maybe group a few related phrases and write a page about them. use the keywords in your page titles and then work on getting other sites on related topics to link to yours.

Originally Posted by vangogh

otimmayo I think the biggest issue is really that you are in a very competitive market. It's going to be hard and possibly take years to show up on the first page some of the more popular keyword phrases.

I'm seeing 14 pages in the Google index for your site and I see a cache data of Feb 20th 2007 so getting crawled and indexed doesn't seem to be the issue. The Flash navigation isn't good, but you have the text links in the footer which compensates.

I don't think you have any links pointing to the site. (Newbie it's fine to tell people they need more links as long as you provide a little more information)

Your page titles aren't optimized at all and I'm going to guess you haven't spent time researching keywords. Page titles are very important. They are probably the most important content you can write when it comes to seo. The page title for your 'how it works' page is "How it Works' Unless you think people will type 'how it works' into a search engine when looking for your services that's not a good title.

You want to use keywords in your page titles, preferably toward the front of the title. Also try to keep the page titles on the shorter side.

Another thing to think about is the site itself. It looks good, but in all honesty there's very little content there. Most links I click take me to a form. I realize your goal is trying to get people to contact you, but most will want more information before they are willing to fill out a form, especially a big one.

What I would do is research some keywords. Have a look at the free tools at WordTracker and KeywordDiscovery. Type in a generic phrase and let the tools lead you into finding more specific phrases. Then work on building content around those phrases. Maybe group a few related phrases and write a page about them. use the keywords in your page titles and then work on getting other sites on related topics to link to yours.

Thank you that helps me out huge. I will focus on that for right now and see what happens. By the way I gave you some green juice! If you find anything else out about my site if your ever board please let me know. I feel I should change the site into css instead of flash which I must go learn now.

research on your market and keywords is very important. meta tags are important. writing optimized content is important. then and only then will links help you. good luck.

I've been reading nothing but posts and PDF's from various SEO "gurus" for two months now. There's a lot of contention in this industry and it seems like the only people that really know what Google is looking for is Google and they're not talking. There are a lot of people with a lot of knowledge and some excellent guesses about what Google wants. I'm sure almost everyone on this board has been doing this longer than me, so I would defer to their experience, but here's my two cents:

I've heard from many, many people that the title of the web page is as important as anything else to getting someone to click on your link. The title should contain one or two of your main keywords and be a call to action. This is going to get the relevance up and make the link more likely to be clicked.

This made perfect sense to me when I thought about how I search. I don't always click on who's first. I click on the highest one that looks like what I'm looking for. If I'm looking for someplace to download Audacity and I type audacity into Google, I'm more likely to click on the result with a title of Download Audacity | Audio Editing Program for Windows and Mac than I am to click on one titled http--audacity.sourceforget.net--download. Both of these titles could be pointing to the same page, but I'm more likely to click on the link that reads like a sentence.

I bring this up because your page is titled Arthur Allen LLC. (or something like that, I don't remember it exactly). That tells me nothing about your business or your web site. If I search Google on supplemental insurance and saw Arthur Allen LLC I wouldn't know what your site was and almost certainly not click on it. If the page was titled something like Supplemental Insurance Protects Your Family, then I'd be much more likely to click on it.

Google uses the page title (up to 64 characters) for the link text. Use those characters to your advantage!

I've spent the last two weeks changing titles on our web site since I learned this. They used to all be PurePoint Golf Simple Golf Instruction. Now each page directs the user with specific link text. Check it out: http://www.PurePointGolf.com

Joe welcome to the club. You're right about page titles being very important. In part for the exact reason you mention. The search engines also place a good deal of weight on what's in your page title. It's probably the most important set of words on your page. There's a lot more to seo that titles, but they are very important.

As far as the name being in the title that could be good if you've branded your name at all. I'll use Nike as an example. Since you do know who they are you might be more likely to click on a link that has their name in the title. You probably wouldn't feel the same if you saw. Billy's Sneakers in the page title, because you have no idea who Billy is.

I'm not sure which posts and PDFs you've read, but when you are reading always check dates on things since the industry changes fast. Something that was true a couple of years ago may not be true anymore.

A few years ago when I first started reading all the PDFs out there I was thinking the same thing about no one really knowing what worked. It's kind of true since on the search engines really know how their algorithms work. Keep reading though and asking questions here. I think you'll start seeing that seo is more than just about algorithms. It's a lot more like traditional offline marketing than it seems at first.

Originally Posted by otimmayo

Im sorry if im cluttering your forum with newb questions. Im still learning so bare with me.

I have noticed some pages listed in Google have sub links under the main listing in google. How do you get these and or edit it?

I have checked alot of the SEO tools in other links and submitted to everything imaginable but Google still shows the old sit when the construction image was up. I am trying to get them to do a recrawl of my site but now thinking its just time before they get to it but could be wrong. Also should i be focused on something at the moment before its re crawled by google so that it will take place when it is re crawled.

Grade for yourself I own and run a mortgage company. Arthur Allen Inc.
www.arthuralleninc.com

Let me know and sorry for all the newb questions. Im in reading overload and trying to absorb as much as possible.

Thanks

Those sub links is additional credit to those site that already gain the trust of google.

Originally Posted by vangogh

Joe welcome to the club.

Thanks. I really like the board. I think I'll stay.

Originally Posted by vangogh

I'm not sure which posts and PDFs you've read, but when you are reading always check dates on things since the industry changes fast. Something that was true a couple of years ago may not be true anymore.

I defnitely know what you're talking about there. I have been checking dates on whatever I read. Let's see, I'm reading stuff from webmarketingnow.net, Jeff Johnson Super Affiliate Coaching Club, Michael Cheney's sites, and a couple others. If there's something out there you recommend, please let me know.

The best SEO advice I've heard so far is: Build a Quality Site, with Quality Content and you don't have to worry about SEO. There's a little more to it than that, but it seems like content is the best way to get traffic.

SEOmoz's Beginner's Guide to Search Engine Optimization is a good article to read. You can download it as a Word document.

From the same site is the Google Search Engine Ranking Factors. If you search through the articles on the site there's a version 1 of the ranking factors geared toward all the engines.

Looking at the ranking factors in the link above click on the links of the contributors to the article and start reading some of their blogs. Much of the best seo advice will be in blogs at the moment. Read a handful for a few months and you'll probably have a good feel for what it's all about.

You're right that starting with a quality site is important. There's a lot of competition and if you want people to stick at your site it needs to offer them a reason to. Another site offering essentially the same thing you do is only a click or two away.

Also don't think in terms of quick results or algorithm chasing. Think more along the lines of traditional offline marketing.

Thanks for the advice Van Gogh! I appreciate it. I'll be sure to check out those links. You've been a big help.

Its very interesting to me this industry of SEO. The comment you made about "algorithm chasing" seems dead-on. I've heard from a bunch of people (especially Jerry West from WebMarketingNow.net) that it doesn't make sense to try to beat the algorithms. That anything even close to black hat isn't worth the trouble.

i also liked your comment about the online marketing vs. offline marking being very similar. My background in traditional marketing is not very deep - I've worked on my share of campaigns and I think I understand basic concepts, but there's always more to learn. I think I might take the time to learn a little more about Marketing in general and then put that to use on the sites I've been working on. Marketing is still marketing whether its online or offline, right? Its all about converting viewers into customers.

Would you guys mind taking a look at the two sites I'm currently working on and maybe impart some advice? I would really appreciate it. I've been working on http://www.purepointgolf.com and http://www.golfswingguru.com for about 6 weeks now. They both eventually get to the same products, but its delivered in a different way. Let me know what you think and what you'd suggest changing.

Great board. I'm very happy that I found it. Thanks everybody!!

Glad to help Joe. In the early days of search engine optimization it was more about chasing the algorithm. They were less sophisticated and people would spend time trying to manipulate them by placing the exact amount of keywords in the exact amount of places and ranking well because of it.

Search engines have evolved since then though and the way now is to follow a more holistic approach. I think that's where the traditional approach comes in.

I don't want to say that anything black hat can't work. I know there are plenty of very successful black hats. The model though is different as black hats might be looking for a temporary whole they can exploit for quick profit and then move on with another site once the whole is closed.

I think most black hats today have a variety of white, gray, and black hat sites that each serve different purposes. I wouldn't recommend using black hat techniques though unless you really know what you're doing. It can easily get all your sites in trouble in a hurry.

Would you mind starting a new thread asking for the review on your site. You could post it in the website reviews forum here if you're more interested in general thoughts on the site or in the seo forums here if it's seo stuff you want to know specifically.

We've probably hijacked otimmayo's thread more than we should have already. I'll be happy to take a look at your site and respond in the new thread. Feel free to PM me when you post it in case I miss it.