I know pagerank isn't really that important at all, but I keep wondering now that Google is banishing the regular link exchange system, are 3 way link exchanges a way around this?

If you look in the relevant link exchange forum (I wouldn't spend too long in there - it's very frustrating), many people are offering 3 way link exchange as a way to continue to manipulate pagerank. I'm not going to do this as it's quality traffic that counts, not pagerank, but I'm still interested in whether the "all-knowing" Google can fall for such a basic loophole

The first point is that Google is NOT "banishing" reciprocal links. All they are doing is what they have always been doing, that is to weed out and eliminate linking schemes that are there only to manipulate their ranking algo.

It doesn't matter if these schemes are 3way, 4 way, Nway or even the infamous Trapezoidal Linking Matriflux™ and you can wear the T-shirt

All schemes leave a identifiable footprint so are pretty easy to discover when you have unlimited access to what is the largest collection of website pages ever.

I know Google isn't banishing organic or natural reciprocal linking - what I meant was reciprocal links designed to manipulate pagerank. Anyways thanks for replying - I suspected Google wouldn't succumb to such an easy loophole

No, they would not. Big G tends to favour sites that do things the old school way. You know, build useful content, attract visitors, piss off the establishment, that sort of thing.

If you're even looking at an X-way scheme, you're looking at it for the wrong reasons.

Originally Posted by chrishirst

... or even the infamous Trapezoidal Linking Matriflux™ and you can wear the T-shirt

Google is devaluing recip links. They have said that sites who have a penalty for purchasing or using too many recips will no longer bleed PR. Recips protected with a nofollow are more likely not to incur a penalty as they will be viewed for "traffic".

So, IF you are seeking a recip to get BIG traffic from a site ... then go for it...do not expect to get full credit or perhaps any credit for the backlink. Certainly do not expect that sites to transfer any Page Rank to you.

Thats my take on it...
--Melanie

Ofcourse... it works...

I think people have misunderstood the direction I'm coming at this from.

I'm not going to go out there and start recip. linking at all because that devalues the purpose of the web. I'm simply saying wondering if Google would have allowed a loophole like this to work

Well,

It is well know that natural or one way links have more weightage than any other reciprocal or three-way links but Google is also not banishing reciprocal links but consider only reciprocals from relevant and reliable ones.

And about three-way links in may opinion, it could work but this is not good practice as it looks like bluffing google to show that your not reciprocating and gaining one-way links ....but google is too clever it already come to know what all about you are doing....

It is well know that natural or one way links have more weightage than any other reciprocal or three-way links

It is NOT well known, it is assumed

I think it all depends on how much the search engines trust your site. If you are in good standing with Google, they probably won't pick up on it as well. The better standing it is in, the more weight they will put on your links.

So you think that if your already ranking high on Google, they won't mind you abusing their system and furthermore, they won't pick it up? I don't know how you came to that conclusion?!

No, I'm saying that the better standing your site has, the greater the judgment Google will put on who you link to.

If your site has been around for a few years, getting higher SERP's, not abusing their system, etc. it'll probably harder to detect link schemes than some young site who looks for exchanges just for the sake of having links (Not that I see why anyone with their trust would want to do that), although they'd probably pick up on it eventually.

As long as the links people make are relevant, I don't see why they would mind it.

Google mind it because it abuses their system. Why have a clean site for several years an then suddenly turn over to the dark side! If you're ranking high, don't jeopardise that with silly link exchanges.

http://www.google.com/support/webmas...n&answer=35769

Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid links to web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web, as your own ranking may be affected adversely by those links - Google

If you are doing well in search engines, then link exchanges are pointless. As long as you have quality content, which hopefully you would if you had high SERP's, then people will naturally link to you from their site.

Originally Posted by whym

So you think that if your already ranking high on Google, they won't mind you abusing their system and furthermore, they won't pick it up? I don't know how you came to that conclusion?!

You're maybe a little too hostile toward spam, young Padawan. I get the idea you're seeing spam where it doesn't exist.

If your site is already ranking well in Google, that means they see it as an authority. In that case if they happen to find a 2-way or 3-way or N-way link trade, because you've proven your worth, they're more likely to assume this natural linking, and not manipulation or abuse of the system.

Forget 3-ways for a while, since we can all agree about 2-ways. It's almost a consensus among everyone who follows search news that 2-way links are useless and devalued. That may or may not be true. Back to the point, it's also generally a sign of spam, of cheating the system like you say. Generally but not always.

Adam did a blog post that links to my blog, because it explains why he was dead for a couple days. His blog is on my blogroll, because he's funny, cracks me up all the time, and I like to send my visitors off to someone who can bring a smile to their face. Are we abusing the system?

Adam has a link in his signature pointing to his blog, but on his blog, he often links to threads here and comments on them. That's a recip link, too, but for perfectly valid reasons. Heck, he did one of his "cool site of the week" columns on JamieLewis's site, and Jamie linked to Adam's site in a post about fighting spam. You don't think these two are in cahoots to cheat Google over, do you? They're both on our side.

Newbie, of course not. I'm saying that there's no point in recip. links to boost rankings when you are already doing well. Whether they pick it up quickly or not, recip. links to boost rankings are still wrong. Of course I know Jamie and Adam are on our side in the anti-spam fight and they wouldn't try manipulating Google for the sake of rankings.

Natural reciprocal links, similar to the ones you mentioned are above board, but James' post gave me the impression that reciprocal linking + 3 ways were fine if your site was already ranking well, since they wouldn't be noticed so much. Sorry if I jumped on a post in my anti-spam crusade without any cause to

I think 3-way linking is still working but I still prefer reciprocal and one-way link.

So despite the evidence that recip. links to manipluate PageRank and SERP are against Google's guidelines, you still think reciprocal linking is important and useful?

Originally Posted by whym

Natural reciprocal links, similar to the ones you mentioned are above board, but James' post gave me the impression that reciprocal linking + 3 ways were fine if your site was already ranking well, since they wouldn't be noticed so much. Sorry if I jumped on a post in my anti-spam crusade without any cause to

I didn't mean that three way linking is always bad, but in most cases it probably is. Hypothetically, say Wikipedia engaged in 3-way linking, Google probably wouldn't penalize them as much due to the trust between the two sites, and the importance.

I think it is pointless to do three way linking just for the sake of linking. But say you found a page on Adam's site you liked because you thought it was funny, and Adam linked to John's site because he really like his blog entry, and John linked to your site for some useful info. I think this kind of linking is OK, because it is relevant.

Not to mention if a site with PR 9 links to a site with PR 2, which links to a PR 4 page, which links back to the PR 9. In this case the site with PR 2 is getting the best deal, because it is getting all the power from the PR 9 site, so 3-Way links aren't always the best solution. Not that PageRank means that much anyway.

That's my take on it

Originally Posted by whym

Natural reciprocal links, similar to the ones you mentioned are above board, but James' post gave me the impression that reciprocal linking + 3 ways were fine if your site was already ranking well, since they wouldn't be noticed so much. Sorry if I jumped on a post in my anti-spam crusade without any cause to

No no no!!! That's the point - you have plenty of cause. You may be young (and I may be old, according to some on this forum), but you're a Jedi Knight, part of an elite spam-fighting force. You're keeping the internet honest, and it would be a shame to the good fight to loose you. I'm only suggesting you focus your power and energy on where it does the most good without stressing yourself too much.

I think James has the right idea. Recip links are pollution - they distract web content producers until they only have enough time to write useless crap, and then they hijack the search rankings to force their garbage in front of as many people's eyes as they can. For ad clicks mostly. It's like opening a sewer and leaving feces all over the floor and making everyone walk around it, and it chokes out the light of day from worthy sites that people enjoy visiting.

My only suggestion is that it isn't the act of N-way linking itself that's poison. It's the "this-for-that" nature, the "I'll give you something only if you give me something, but I won't link to you just because people deserve to find your content." So my interpretation of James's post was saying basically that once a site reaches a certain level of respect and authority, the search engines probably assume that site doesn't need to cheat and is more probably linking out for the right reasons.