The Other Search Engines

**david** · 09-02-2002, 06:37 PM

I've seen a lot of reports recently which state that Google has been banned in China!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2231101.stm

Personally, I don't see how this is going to do any good. Blocking Google is only the beginning. There are so many sites based on Google which still are accessable in China that all the information is still available, so its just making people's lives a little more difficult.

I know this isn't a political forum

but personally I don't agree with this sort of thing at all. Understandably, the Government have their reasons for doing it (and I'm not going to get into a political debate) but as has been proven many times before that the internet is just too big and well established for the blocking of any one site (however big) to be any good. The Chinese Governement is fighting a losing battle, and the sooner they realise it the better.

**DaveMo~** · 09-03-2002, 02:47 AM

Since there has been previous access, and it was liked/used, I wonder what the outcome will be. It does seem like it could be a losing battle.

It would also be interesting to know why they would block a site, but not do anything to non-original sites of Chinese denizens that have been totally copied from established sites of other countries.

I know these are two totally different issues and internet is really broad.

Dave

**conkermaniac** · 09-03-2002, 10:31 AM

Hi everyone,

I live in China, and I can testify to this. Google, for a fact, has not been working for the past few days. However, since I was able to ping the servers successfully (which is something I have not been able to do with other blocked sites), I assumed it was just some strange isolated case. The problem is that the Chinese gov't also blocks proxies very efficiently. I hate the fact that sites like Google have to be blocked, and I agree: the sooner the government realizes that it's fighting a losing battle, the better it will be.

**DaveTodd** · 09-07-2002, 08:15 AM

google will have been blocked for a reason i would assume. it will be a governmental issue concerning the search engine.

incidently, do yahoo and lycos etc still work? it could be that they are systematically blocking all the major search engines in order to prevent people reaching the "outside world" through the web.

china, a communist state. the government have total control over radio and television, they can stop what they don't want broadcast if they want to. the only commodity within any country that the government has no control over, is the internet. its universal, trans national, and thus is the biggest problem a controlling government faces in the modern world.

**david** · 09-07-2002, 09:38 AM

I heard recently that AltaVista has been blocked as well... Anyone know anything more about this?

**DaveTodd** · 09-07-2002, 09:50 AM

not heard anything david.

but if that's true, then it simply adds weight to my argument that they are slowly attempting to gain control of the internet, the newest and most uncontrolled easy access publication of free speech. by controlling the internet, china finally has total control over what it's residents can and can't see / read.

this gives them overall power, and prevents the ability to think for themselves about world events. everything can be regulated before it is fed to the people once the internet goes, it is the last source of "unbiased" truth for china; when it goes, there is only one view point, the chinese government viewpoint

**benmoore** · 09-07-2002, 09:56 AM

I wonder if sites such as www.dogpile.com work - they include results from many search engines incl. google

**DaveTodd** · 09-07-2002, 10:36 AM

it would depend on how the blocking system was working.

if it's possible to block a site, then perhaps its possible to block that site from being called by other sites that you load. if the IP of google is blocked, then perhaps this means that when in china and you request a site that requests a google IP, it gets blocked automatically. otherwise, theres not much point in doing it, because there are numerous sites on the net that offer "the power of google." if its just google.com and .co.uk etc that are blocked, this won't deter people that really want to search google.

if you really want to, you can get scripts that search google and display the results on your own customisable page, thus you can have the power of google on your own site, and call it your own search engine. if you can do this, then surely people in china could all have their own "personal" googles if they so desired, their own pages with an implanted google search engine from where they could search through google anyway.

unless it is an IP blockage, or some other sophisticaed block that prevents other sites from drawing in google, and apparently now altavista, then this WILL NOT rule out google, or any other site basically, from being viewable

**erdnis** · 09-07-2002, 01:10 PM

Here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2240493.stm

China has blocked altavista as well.

**DaveTodd** · 09-07-2002, 01:15 PM

told ya

google was just the first step. now its altavista, and we seriously have to ask the question...who'se next?? lycos? yahoo? whichever is most popular in the far east, will most probably be next to go.

they're tightening control on the internet, for a reason. and it would appear that it is simply going to keep happening. they are the government, and they are totally in power, they're communist, but still under dictatorship. is there a reason for the blocking? i would assume china would claim it was to "protect" its inhabitants from accessing potentially harmful material, but seriously, they're just taking control of what they can see. things like this should not be allowed to happen.

the internet is a place of freedom. freedom of speech, freedom of expression. if you take away the freedom, there is only sensorship, which inevitably leads to dictatorship

**erdnis** · 09-07-2002, 03:20 PM

Yahoo won't be blocked...

Quote:

Yahoo is one of the 130 major web portals that recently signed a voluntary pledge not to post information that would jeopardise state security and disrupt social stability in China.

**conkermaniac** · 09-08-2002, 02:27 AM

Hi DaveTodd,

Altavista has always been blocked. I have never been able to access it. Yahoo won't be blocked, and neither would any of the other portals that have agreed to blocking info that would harm security in China.

I agree that the Internet is a place of freedom, and that China controls its media tightly. However, I have always found it ironic that the Chinese know more about the bad things their government has done than Americans, with absolute free speech, who know far less about the wrongdoings of their government (which believe it or not, are far greater than possibly any country in the world).

And BTW, China's not really Communist, and it hasn't been for almost 2 decades; it's Socialist.

**DaveTodd** · 09-08-2002, 08:28 AM

i thought china was still listed as a communist state? we got taught that in history...meh, never mind.

so, china have said "as long as we regulate your content you can stay" basically to yahoo and other portals. meaning everyone wins. the chinese get their search engines, and the government get control.

this strikes me as a standard coverup. you cover up the source of the problem, filter it, control it, and don't tell people about it. the chinese people believe they're getting the outside world, but in fact they're getting a controlled and filtered version.

as you can tell, i'm very anti-controlling states. the government is controlling what the people read, and see, stopping access to what they don't want them to see, its down right wrong.

**conkermaniac** · 09-09-2002, 08:40 AM

Hi DaveTodd,

I agree with you. It absolutely sucks. I hate it when governments do that, especially when they block bare necessities to living (especially during my school career) like Google.

The thing is, you can't ignore the fact that most Westerners don't realize all the terrible things their government has done. Even with free Internet access, the media is largely biased, and the governments of Western countries still end up fooling their citizens. For example, how many of you know more about Sese Seko Mobutu more than Adolf Hitler? Mobutu was a worse leader than Hitler (Hitler at least boosted his country's economy despite the atrocities; Mobutu crushed his country's economy and made himself one of the wealthiest men in the world), yet American media don't mention him nearly as much simply because he was on the US side (the US put him in power in the first place, after the CIA managed to assassinate their previous leader). As you can probably see, I don't trust governments at all and for a good reason too.

**khuldun** · 09-14-2002, 06:31 AM

Its unblocked now
________________
Khuldun Waheed
http://www.doonibhai.com

**conkermaniac** · 09-15-2002, 01:29 AM

Hi,

Yes, Google has been unblocked. Unfortunately, the "Cached" feature does not work. I wonder how they've been able to keep the Google port open while blocking "cached" versions of sites. Any ideas?

**david** · 09-15-2002, 06:18 PM

I think the reason is that the cache is on a different IP address.

216.239.51.100 is the one for the cached sites, but a traceroute on Google gives 216.239.35.100. Maybe they've blocked one but not the other... Seems very strange...

**DaveTodd** · 09-21-2002, 08:21 AM

glad google is back...for everyones sake in china!!

governments cover up hundreds of things every year. they do it to avoid embarassment, and for economic gain. the whole world is corrupt, from the pick pocket theif to the leader of the greatest country in the world - they're all alike, they all lie and deceive for their own personal gain.

this is how the world is, and will forever be. if you can get one up on your enemy, then you do it. we sold the weapons to the taliban that they used against us. we supplied sadam hussain with many of his weapons. our own stupidity in the pursuit of economic gain is comming back to haunt us.

the world is driven by money, nothing more, nothing less. if you can make money, however it can be done, then it is done. countries are money making machines. propoganda and other things are resources at their disposal to encourage their workers to make more money. this is how it is, and how it will be for a long time to come