Hello! I am new to this site and I have a big question that I need assistance with! My partner and I are arguing over whether or not the Graphic Design should be completed before the web programming. I understand the traditional foundation starts at the programming but we have had problems with this because of the nature of our site. So, reflecting the nature of our site (AJAX, Processes coding), there is confusion as to how the graphics and functionality works when we had some seed programming completed. Now, I have designed in Visio, how the site layout should look and functionality associate with each page and objects. I plan to give this to our 3rd party graphic designers, have them design it as a "shell" and then we go back to the programmers and show them the overall website design so they know exactly what to do programming wise. Is this a smart move? Considering the nature of our site, I feel that it is. My partner on the other hand, believes we are spinning wheels if we take this route. He believes the coding foundation should be fully developed, then we go to the graphic designers. The problem I have with this is after going to the GD with the code, we have to go back to the programmers due to our shoestring budget because the GD's are expensive coding wise. Does anyone have any insight?? Any help would be great! We are trying to solve this issue asap!

thanks!!

-g

I don't know it could be your problem solver though..... I know this problem as pain process. Have you tried framework (e.g. codeigniter , cakephp). they use M-V-C, which separate design and engine section. Your friend (as programmer) can try templating system (smarty, for example). Then, designing and programming will be done by different people.

My partner and I are arguing over whether or not the Graphic Design should be completed before the web programming.

IMO, yes, that is the way you should get started. How do the programmers know where things should go if they have no visual of what you want the site to look like ? Most sites start with a sketch and then a mockup. There may be instances where the design may have to be changed to accommodate some limitations with the coding, I've had to do that on occasion.

I'd say they can start in parallel.

The developers have to design in an intelligent enough way to make the functions abstracted from the layout.
The designers create the layout.

When both are finished, a short phase of merging functions call and return into the layout is done.

The base functions should be created as objects, and only called from utterly simplified web pages.
No processing (or minor) should be done in those pages.

Sumpel's comments about MVC and Tripy's about seperating function and layout are both dead on. The developer should be able to program at least some of the "backend" without knowing the exact layout. The designer of course should be able to work completely independantly. That being said, you're probably going to have to have the design finished before the programming is completed, as the integration of the design will largely fall on the shoulders of the programmer. However, if the site is well designed, implementing the layout late in the game shouldn't be to hard. To make things easier, both parties should be communicating throughout the entire proccess, and a general layout of each page should be determined and agreed upon before either begins work. The more time you spend planning, the less time you'll waste trying to fix things late in the game.

I think that the first thing you need to have layout. Once you have it start design your web site. Then add codding. But design all things and keep in mind codding.

I am probley the best of doing coding and designing on this forum

My my my....
If it's not self confidence, how would you call that !?

If you truly think this, Lackofheart, well, good luck in keeping your title.
Because, mind you, even after spending almost a decade programming and learning, I still feel quite an amateur when I read what some peoples playing around here are writing.

And as Elmer Simpson would say, "You are the best, so far..." (roughly translated from French. Sorry for the fans/purists)

I have started to use fireworks and photoshop to design my sites I build it in that then slice it up and then code it into the site background images etc.

Depends on the size of the project. On a little project it probably makes more sense to wait for most of the design to be done - although there'll almost always have to be tweaks.

On a large site you can often do lot of what's considered technical work while the look and feel is being designed - i.e. figuring out the architecture, getting content converted, testing, etc.