Website Design Forum

**Motosaki** · 09-17-2008, 05:59 PM

hey guys

ive been doing very light web design for a few years, in the past i have always been lazy and used premade templates. I used to use frames for every page i did.

now i want to learn how to do it right. im trying to stick with all w3c xhtml strict coding from now on, and do everything by hand (with notepad)

the one thing i cant seem to find a good answer for is framing type codes for xhtml. i used to make one main page with a sidebar, and set a frame in the center, making all my links open in the frame. it was simple and kept work to a minimum. i read that frames are now being phased out, and that they are looked down on in the business. my question is, what is an alternative to using frames? is there a way to specify an ID for a block element and link directly to that ID?

i hate the idea of having to go page by page, making the same changes over and over again. any help or input is appreciated

**LadynRed** · 09-17-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

is there a way to specify an ID for a block element and link directly to that ID?

Yes, but you need javascript.

Quote:

what is an alternative to using frames?

Why do you need one at all ? You have to code the content for each page anyway. If you're looking to not have to repeat navigation on every page, then use server side includes.

**Motosaki** · 09-17-2008, 09:07 PM

so to click a link on the sidebar and have it open in the centercontent, there is no way to do it without javascript or SSI? (with xhtml standards)

**wayfarer07** · 09-17-2008, 11:04 PM

SSI has nothing to do with making content "pop" into a section of a site without refreshing the other sections, that can only be done with JavaScript. SSI is for including sections of sites (such as header, footer, navigation), that are shared by many pages. By organizing your site with included files, you may simply build seperate pages which share the same sidebars, headers, etc. If the shared sections have the same images, styles, etc, they will be cached, and the illusion of them remaining steady will be accomplished.

It is almost always more proper to seperate a site into pages rather than pull in a bunch of content with JS.

**Motosaki** · 09-18-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayfarer07

If the shared sections have the same images, styles, etc, they will be cached, and the illusion of them remaining steady will be accomplished.

It is almost always more proper to seperate a site into pages rather than pull in a bunch of content with JS.

So the correct way is to have the site in the picture above be a seperate html file, and then the sidebar links to identical html files (with the exception of the content) ?

what if you were to add a link to the sidebar, wouldn't you have to go file by file adding it over and over again? that's what i'm confused about. maybe it's the norm but coming from frames it seems like a lot of unnecessary work. if you were to add a link to your sites layout how would YOU do it?

**wayfarer07** · 09-18-2008, 11:49 AM

I write all my sites in PHP, so my pages are organized something like this:

PHP Code:


			
<?php include "top.php"; //document type, encoding, etc?>
<title>Example</title>
<!--meta, etc-->
<?php include "header.php"; //links to CSS files, scripts, etc.  Opening <body> tag and top part of navigation, if it is at the top.?>
<div id="page">
<!--HTML GOES HERE-->
<?php include "sidebar.php"; //just like it sounds?>
</div>
<?php include "footer.php"; //a shared footer, closing </body> tag, scripts at bottom of page like Google Analytics?>

What happens when you pull in stuff on the server via includes, is just that whatever is in the file replaces the <?php include ""?> statement as seen above. Depending on your programming skills, this content could vary a little from page to page, but the important point is that you are able to consolidate certain common content areas into just a few files, so that when and if they need to be updated, you will not have to cut and paste thoughout the site, which, as you have pointed out, can be a real pain.

What you see above is basically a "template" for a site. It can vary a little from page to page, but it allows you, in broad strokes, to create uniformity throughout the site.