When I signed on with my hosting service, they have NUMEROUS scripts and then there's FANTASTICO

With a host of wondeful tools and helpful utiilities to create websites.

Though I am not into the "From scratch" web designs, they have these new Content Management Systems

Such as PostNuke, PHP-Nuke and yes, even PHP-Nuke PLATINUM (yeah its gets fancier)

Now, would this be a great substitute for web designing alogether? Unless I can download those basic templates from the web to use on Client sites as well.

I just don't want to spend time designing websites from scratch...in fact, isn't that the "old way" anyways?

Now we can just click on the "Install" button, a viola...INSTANT website!

Now, would this be a great substitute for web designing alogether?

No way, at least not IMO. Someone has to design the template.

I just don't want to spend time designing websites from scratch...in fact, isn't that the "old way" anyways?

Says who ??? Someone had to design those templates, or do you believe in the template fairy ?? Designing from scratch is not the 'old way', it's the best way. Using someone else's templates is the LAZY way -- not the 'new way.

Originally Posted by LadynRed

No way, at least not IMO. Someone has to design the template.

Says who ??? Someone had to design those templates, or do you believe in the template fairy ?? Designing from scratch is not the 'old way', it's the best way. Using someone else's templates is the LAZY way -- not the 'new way.

Well, perhaps its more efficient that way?

Heck you can also use templates that some hosting services provide for free if you're a subscriber. Sometimes you can purchase templates if you want.

Two words:

Absolutely Not.

First of all, "Content management systems" have a notorious habit of generating bulky, inefficient code that wreaks havoc on sites across different browsers. Designing from scratch leads to leaner, meaner, more efficient code. If you do it properly, you can often reuse the code and on subsequent projects, significantly lower your development time and make the sites more useful. (I hate the word "functionality" because it's become a buzzword, but it would work here.)

Second, sites take significantly longer to maintain via many CMSes than they do for those of us who actually know how to code.

Third, as LNR said, someone still has to build the skin for the software in the first place to customize it to the site's needs.

Fourth, designing from scratch makes it yours. You did it. You can show other people you did it. And that's a sense of pride you'll never get from slapassing a phpNuke site together.

Fifth, a lot of the CMSes (phpNuke is a classic example) tend to get misused. I saw an entire site built off of it. It was a not-for-profit foundation site and the skin for phpNuke did NOTHING to reflect the site. I redid it off of the logo and a photograph and the site actually looked better. (Site's no longer in play because the organization got shut down but still...)

Basically, CMSes should never be used by anyone who wants to consider themselves a professional or expert designer/developer. If anything, they should be build by experts so that those who don't want to learn can still use them.

AMEN Adam !

If you do it properly, you can often reuse the code and on subsequent projects, significantly lower your development time and make the sites more useful.

That is EXACTLY the way I do it ! I have a basic framework for 1 2 and 3 column sites and I work from there. I make changes and adjustments only to accomodate the design.

Originally Posted by LadynRed

AMEN Adam !


That is EXACTLY the way I do it ! I have a basic framework for 1 2 and 3 column sites and I work from there. I make changes and adjustments only to accomodate the design.

Oh okay, sounds like some pretty info here.

I am getting ready to do a site for a Paintball field, it typically is now static, and its one of those sites that are hardly updated.

You know where I can get an idea of how these frame works work, code-wise?

I do have some old-school knowledge when I used to Code in Notepad, then later Frontpage 97, but I've been out of the loop for quite some time.

I would sometimes download templates and Re-customize them to suit my purposes as well.

Also, I don't have much experience in CSS

Listen what Lady'n'red and Adam said!

Or find some inspiration sites with web page examples. This can be very helpful in designing Your site. Maybe You'll get an idea for Your own.

But, do it from scratch. Find on google great tutorials about tableless design.

Hardly updating site!? It depends on You. You can update every day, if You want!
Put some news on site, change images, add new content...

Sketch Your idea on paper and divide page in logical divisions (header, navigation, content...), use different colours, different fonts, try and see, try and see...Soon ,You'll learn how to do it.

But - from scratch - This is the best way.

Oooookkkaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy......

I think there's some confusion in terms here.

CMS: Content Management System - meaning, it's a tool to manage content.

Developer: person who writes the underlying code.

Design: decorative scheme; composition - meaning, it's the front end "pretty" that the visitors see.

The CMS should be used as a tool to make life easier on both the designer and the end user. Nothing more.

You're still going to have to design the templates yourself, you're still gonna have to markup your own code (unless you use dreamweaver) to display the output from the underlying CMS.

It's the backend that's going to change, usually for the better (unless it's postnuke), to allow your clients to update their site on their own. And usually, without having to come back to you for minor changes.

Don't confuse the CMS with the design. They are too separate beasts that, when used together can make for one great website.

Default CMS templates all suck. And I mean it in the most affectionate ways.

But they are intended to make life easier on the end-user. Which they do...unless it's postnuke (except postnuke). It's just a matter of finding which one would work best for your (or your clients') needs.

If you don't want the hassle of becoming the developer, and don't want to write the underlying code, but want your own creative designs, by all means, give the CMSes a try (except postnuke). However, if you like more control over you code and how it outputs, you ought to look into writing your own backend.

PS: have I mentioned how much I hate postnuke?