Hi people,

Hopefully someone out there can help me. I have just spent 2 weeks designing a site, the client is very happy with it but now when it comes to payment has stopped answering my emails!

Is there any process I can go thru to get my money back? I will happily sue him but I do not have enough money for a solicitor.

All comments welcome.

G

I always take 50% payment upfront, if they won't pay that then chances are they won't pay once you have completed.

You didn't say which country you live in, every where is different, if you like in the UK you can take them to the small claims court and only costs you about £30, if your in another country then I don't know, good luck

Same thing happened to me a couple of years ago. Did a lot of work for someone and they were really positive, promising me a bonus etc., even inviting me over to Holland to work with them a few months later. As soon as I delivered the product...nothing.

I never got the money, so now I take a deposit and require most of the money before installing scripts (might work for designs). Haven't had that problem since.

Might just have to put this one down to experience...

What kind of company is this?

How much money are we talking about?


//MrLeone

It was a small business in Holland (probably sole trader). I can't remember the exact amount but it was only $100-$200... not worth the trouble of pursuing too much.

I hate when this situation arises. It makes me a little sick to hear it as I too have had a similar situation. It was only a small job, but still, it annoys me to see it happen. Sonic had some good advice though take 50% or depending on the size of the job, 25% of the cost up front. If they do not pay you the rest, at least you got some. People normally get a bit weary of this, because of scams (you know, "yeah, we'll do that for ya, if you gove me 50% now" then they leg it!). It's a little like a double edged sword.

Although if you do have access rights to the website... you could be malicious (if you wanted. I'm not saying trash it, but make some significant changes, like the links don't work)

I already took a 25% deposit before i started (not completely stupid ) but i underpriced the job as they agreed to pay a monthly service contract. now they wont even pay me the 75% owed! I am in england and would love to take them to small claims court, any idea where i can get the forms? I really do not care about the money its the principle that is at stake here.

Thanks for your replies, looks like im not alone with this one!

G

This looks quite interesting:
http://www.small-claims.co.uk/
But they want to represent you, costing you extra. You can represent yourself in the small claims court and that gives a nice overview of the procedure.

This looks even better though:
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
It's the court service's online claim procedure. Looks like you can do most of it on that website.

I would advise writing a nice solicitors letter to the person involved, an only go for the small claims court if that doesn't work.

In my experience once you mention courts, people soon pay up

This just happened to me few weeks ago. However, I found out that all you have to do is go down to the small claims court and file a 1 page form. You can do this with out a lawyer. Alot of landlords do it this way. Hear it is a relatively small fee. In some states, once the judgement is given by the judge you can even walk in and sees property that day.

Good Lucky!

Thanks again, Im looking forward to seeing what he does when he knows he is going to court (Bwahahahahaa). It seems that in our line of work this seems to happen a lot.

Hi, I have been burnt before by programmer who did not deliver, and as such I am weary of paying upfront 50%. But here is what i do, I pay in agreed upon payment plan. That way I am fair to the programmer and also to myself.

One recourse is you must have that person's business name and email address, since you were designing his/her web site, try to access the web site and see if they have used your work or not. If they have, try to contact the isp, and tell them of copyrights issues, and pending law suit and unless they cancel the hosting, they would be implicated with them. Most isp would rather not deal with that and would warn their client. That way you might be able to use a friendly stick to help yourself get paid.

good luck!

Braveheart,

sometimes you need a stick to be peaceful.

Happens sometimes to me.
Ussually all it takes is a little phonecall to them. Go to register.com, type in domain name and view the WHOIS. Get their address, and phone number, call them and say, "Hello, I am the person who done the website work for you, you didnt pay me, and I know where you live. So if you dont want problems, Pay Up buddy." If that dont scare them, A nice little call to your lawyer will.

Hope this helps

I just wanted to chime in that 50% up front is completely standard in any business. Don't be afraid to ask for it. Lots of people with big ideas and little pockets enthusiastically get you working and then either disappear or go out of business. This isn't your problem. Make sure 50% is paid up front, and, upon completion, give them a set amount of time to pay up. If not, site goes down. I'm writing this mostly so I'll heed my own advice.

I charge on a “milestone” basis. It’s like getting an upfront fee for each stage of the development process. Obviously every project is different, but here is a simple example:

• 25% Upfront – This is after the consultation but before any design takes place. This covers the cost of my time for the design concept phase.
• 25% Design Completion – This is collected after everyone agrees upon the final design but before I begin any actual HTML. (I do the design 100% in PhotoShop, rather than touching any HTML)
• 25% “Site Frame” Completion – This is collected after I have created an HTML template with the home page and one interior page completely built out but before I build the content or applications.
• 25% Project Completion – This is collected when there is a live workable version of their site on my development server for them to test and verify everything is collect but it is before I upload the files to their server.

Using the milestone approach above, you will want to change the percentages based on the quantity and skill level of the work required. For example, if you are creating several applications in the final phase, then you will want to give that phase a higher percent or, even better, break it up into sub-phases. You can also replace percentages with dollar amounts.

My objective is not to get as much as I can upfront, but to cover my charges for work I have done. By charging on a milestone basis, you are giving the client an offer that is fair to both parties and easier for the client to accept; as he risks less. If at any stage of the project the client decides to stop paying, you just simply stop working and can feel good that you have been paid what you deserve for the work you have done. This approach also puts you in a better legal standing; as you can justify not going forward.

I really like Paul's program; I hope one day I'm that organized!
This experience wasn't in web design, and I'm sure the success depends upon the person/people you're dealing with, but I'll tell it anyway. Maybe it will be of some use.

I was doing private tutoring, and a couple students approached me about having me work with both of them and having them split my fee. Because I always choke when I have to talk about money, I said ok instead of telling what my group rates were (not as good as splitting it, but not as expensive as seeing me separately). They were so much trouble, and it was always something: "Here's your check, but could you not cash it until the end of next week?" etc etc.

The last check I got (which was for more than one session) bounced, and I was having trouble getting any attention. What I finally tried was to send a very official looking itemized invoice. I charged for the work, I charged a re-imbursement fee for what the bank took for the bounced check, I charged my own bounced check fee for the inconvenience of having to deal with all this, and I charged an *obscene* late fee. I also listed an additional late fee "if not paid by (later date)". If I remember correctly, I didn't hear back right away, so I added the additional late fee, sent another invoice with another late fee listed under "if not paid by (even later date)".

I got a big fat check in the mail, which didn't bounce. I think they ended up paying more than if they'd just hired me separately. Actually, this was (years ago) before I knew that there are some limits on what you can charge for a late fee. Between my ignorance and the fact that I was really pissed, I didn't do too badly.

I hope you find a way to get these charming clients, and if not, find a way not to stress on it too much. I know that second part's always a tough one. Let us know what happens?

AmyD

The milestone approach is very nice and fair. I was actually coming back to add this:

Really it depends on how much work you have.... It is scarey when you're wondering if you're going to eat next week, so you don't want to badger your potential client for 50%. However, if you have all the work you can handle (without quitting your webmaster-talk forum surfing) go for it, it will protect you, and if you burn someone for the 50%, you won't be sucessful for very long.

I like this idea of collecting when the design is finished. I often do first drafts in photoshop as well, it is much faster and easier than using html, or even more perverse, php. Maybe we should start a new thread about everyone's method of collecting money. It is definately the hardest aspect of the business.

Originally Posted by Guerrilla

Hi people,

Hopefully someone out there can help me. I have just spent 2 weeks designing a site, the client is very happy with it but now when it comes to payment has stopped answering my emails!

Is there any process I can go thru to get my money back? I will happily sue him but I do not have enough money for a solicitor.

All comments welcome.

G

Originally Posted by Guerrilla

Hi people,

Hopefully someone out there can help me. I have just spent 2 weeks designing a site, the client is very happy with it but now when it comes to payment has stopped answering my emails!

Is there any process I can go thru to get my money back? I will happily sue him but I do not have enough money for a solicitor.

All comments welcome.

G

I was reading this thread and remembered a story about a local chimney maker in my area who was ALWAYS having trouble getting his money for jobs he had done. He came up with a solution and he NEVER had a problem getting paid again. What he did was when building the chimney, he would lay a very thin piece of glass across a section of the bricks and then continue to build and finish the chimney. If the people DID NOT pay him, he would let time go by and the people would eventually try to use their fireplace. Of course their house would fill up with smoke and they would usually call him right away. He would arrive and refuse to fix the chimney unless they paid him. They would then pay him and he would climb a ladder to the top of the chimney and simply drop a brick down the chimney. LOL Of course if the customer DID pay him right after the job, he would break the glass quietly without the customer ever knowing about it.
That is a true story and I thought it was pretty funny. I'm new here and this is my first post here. I am not trying to drudge up an old post, just wanted to share that story with you all after reading your posts.

I like the milestone approach also and often use it myself, but would add a thought...

When I design a site for someone, I do two things that helps people realize they have to pay up...

First, I do not load the finished (or even semi-finished) pages onto their site until it is paid for. I set it up on a server of my own as a work-in-progress so they do not have FTP access to it and it is only there for a VERY short time.

Secondly, I put a little code in the pages that will prevent (most) users from downloading any of the graphics or text. (You know, the old "Sorry, you cannot use right-click here" bit?) I know that the experienced user can get around that if he/she wants to badly enough, but if they had that kind of person on their payroll, why did they hire you? So you're usually safe.

I am in the U.S. (state of Washington) so I'm not sure how the legal system compares to the UK... but I do think the small claims court sounds similar. In fact, in the U.S., you cannot take a lawyer with you to small claims court... altho he/she can handle the outside work. It's quick, it's inexpensive, and it's just as legal.

Good luck and I hope this helps!!!