With the recent dialogues about alexa and the several messages I recieved with people offering to help me improve my ratings. I thought I would try and explain my "old-farty-businessman" approach to the web.

First of all business is business and the principles don't change because you use the net. At its core it will always come down to math and how you total the "plus" and "minus" columns. IE. Not just increasing sales but increasing profit margin.

OK time for good traffic vs bad traffic....
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For the moment forget about the Internet and pretend you own a jewlry store on Rodeao blvd in Beverly Hill, California.
For the sake of the example, let's say you average 10 people enter your store every day and 2 of the 10 actually buy. (Not bad 20% of your traffic actually makes a purchase)

Well you want to expand your opperation and start to look at other options. A fast talking and slick salesman promises you he can bring foriegners into your store by the bus load. You start to think, "Japaneese businessmen and europeans with euros burning holes in their pockets" and it sounds like a great idea to you. So you sign the contract and await for the bus loads of foriegners to arrive.

But it turns out that the bus loads of foriegners turns out to be an old school bus with bunch of ilegal immigrant Mexicans on discount tours of the greater Los Angeles area.

Sure suddenly you go from 10 walk-ins to your store a day to over 200. But none of these new group of people can afford to buy your products and they are just there to look at them.

Well your sales turnover now drops to 1% (Math explanation: You still average 2 sales a day from the 10 that can afford your products... But now you have an additional 190 people to look after. Therefore you are no longer have a 20% turnover but a 1% turnover)

Now add to this problem that your overhead has increased.
You electrcity bill increases because the door opens and closes all day letting the summer hot air ruin your airconditioning.
You water bill increases because of people using your toilette. Not to mention that you have to start to buy air freshners because burrito diets can really kill a bathroom.
Plus the expensive glass door has been broken a couple of times do to bored children having nothing to play while their parents stare at your merchandise.
Not to mention theft and having to install an expensive security system.

But it gets worst.
Your good "potential buyers" start to come under assualt and they are your bread and butter.
They can't park out front anymore because the school bus takes up the space. (DOS erreur?)
If they are in the store they have to wait long periods for service because your sales staff is busy serving looky-loos.
In time you get complaints and people bad mouthing your store. Eventually business starts to drop off.
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It's not too hard to make some extrapulations and see how things like this can relate to a website.
One of the keys to any successful business is lowering your costs and therby increasing profit margin. (Can we say bandwidth charges?)

We can do this by good old fashioned... TARGET MARKETING !!
Defin who buys your products and services and where do they come from.
We have a wide array of stats at our finger tips about who visits our sites.

It may take a bit of elbow greese plus some paper and ink to figure what IP purchased and where they come from.
But in the end, it is worth it.

Do an IP look up and get a notion of where they live. Do some searches and cross reference it with data on what the average earnings are in that area. Develop a theoretical model of the demographics.
Over time as you accumulate the information a clear picture starts to emerge of who the average buyer is of your merchandise.

Plus you can also look at your competitors and see where they place their ads and find similar venues for yours.
Look at the tone of the creative of publicity and try to gear yours accordingly.
(Ie. If you're average customer is a baptist...Don't use bikini girls in the photos)

The problem with search engine reliance is they tend to be a shot gun effect. It doesn't matter how good google or the others make their search abilities. At the end of the day they still tend to send everyone and anyone that types in a word or phrase to your site.
And as I have shown, that is not always a good thing.

Thanks for the read.

Originally Posted by katers

Thanks for the read.

Not too shabby for a guy that had to learn english in Los Angeles and on IRC chat channels.

excellent read!

For geographical stats on your traffic checkout google analytics at http://www.google.com/analytics/

very nice example that is really true

Originally Posted by Michel Samuel

One of the keys to any successful business is lowering your costs and therby increasing profit margin. (Can we say bandwidth charges?)

No, we can't say bandwidth charges. You should be spending less on bandwidth than you do on creamer for your coffee every month. All of your examples about people breaking your windows, overworking your air conditioner, and using up parking - which, if I understand correctly, belongs to the city and its residents, not a shopkeeper on a particular block - is about as related to bandwidth charges as a fish is to a bicycle. $5 a month gets you all the bandwidth you can use, a server that's able to keep up with the load, and chances are you're not even aware of any change in usage. Sorry to rain on your parade, but that's just a horrible comparison. I think you're being seduced by your own analogy, and forgetting about all the ways running a web site is not like having a store full of Mexicans.

Originally Posted by Michel Samuel

First of all business is business and the principles don't change because you use the net. At its core it will always come down to math and how you total the "plus" and "minus" columns. IE. Not just increasing sales but increasing profit margin.

And the most expensive part of running most businesses is finding new customers. Failing to take advantage of free referrals is an example of being hurt by the wish that things wouldn't change in business as society itself is being transformed.

Originally Posted by Michel Samuel

But it turns out that the bus loads of foriegners turns out to be an old school bus with bunch of ilegal immigrant Mexicans on discount tours of the greater Los Angeles area.

But none of these new group of people can afford to buy your products and they are just there to look at them.

You water bill increases because of people using your toilette. Not to mention that you have to start to buy air freshners because burrito diets can really kill a bathroom.
Plus the expensive glass door has been broken a couple of times do to bored children having nothing to play while their parents stare at your merchandise.
Not to mention theft and having to install an expensive security system.

Your good "potential buyers" start to come under assualt and they are your bread and butter.

You don't have a very high opinion of Mexicans, do you? I really don't understand what your rant about bathrooms and burritos has to do with a primarily visual medium like the web??

Originally Posted by Michel Samuel

If they are in the store they have to wait long periods for service because your sales staff is busy serving looky-loos.

Again, business is business, and every minute of every day sales people deal with customers who plan to buy something, and also customers who don't. This is nothing new. But what is new is that when you have a web site, you don't need to pay people to personally tend to onlookers.

The Pony Express probably wouldn't agree that "First of all business is business and the principles don't change because you use the net." I do believe telegraph operators have also found reason to accept change in the world and in business.

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

No, we can't say bandwidth charges. You should be spending less on bandwidth than you do on creamer for your coffee every month. All of your examples about people breaking your windows, overworking your air conditioner, and using up parking - which, if I understand correctly, belongs to the city and its residents, not a shopkeeper on a particular block - is about as related to bandwidth charges as a fish is to a bicycle. $5 a month gets you all the bandwidth you can use, a server that's able to keep up with the load, and chances are you're not even aware of any change in usage. Sorry to rain on your parade, but that's just a horrible comparison. I think you're being seduced by your own analogy, and forgetting about all the ways running a web site is not like having a store full of Mexicans.

And the most expensive part of running most businesses is finding new customers. Failing to take advantage of free referrals is an example of being hurt by the wish that things wouldn't change in business as society itself is being transformed.

You don't have a very high opinion of Mexicans, do you? I really don't understand what your rant about bathrooms and burritos has to do with a primarily visual medium like the web??

Again, business is business, and every minute of every day sales people deal with customers who plan to buy something, and also customers who don't. This is nothing new. But what is new is that when you have a web site, you don't need to pay people to personally tend to onlookers.

The Pony Express probably wouldn't agree that "First of all business is business and the principles don't change because you use the net." I do believe telegraph operators have also found reason to accept change in the world and in business.

I belive the expression is...
Who put a bee in your bonet ?

In my university classes, we used the examples of Widgets and Grumets. Fictional products that are used to ilustrate various models and paradgyms.

I choose my ilustrations because anyone who has seen the Julia Robert's movie, "Pretty Woman" know Rodeo blvd in Beverly Hills is a rich area. And I'm sorry, but the Mexicans are the largest minorty group in Los Angeles and the brunt of many jokes by Hollywood films.

I could have choose anything and anyone to make my point...I just wanted to make it a fun lite read.
(Besides that, I'm french! Culturally I think everyone in the world is beneath me...Including other francophones, my dog and often even myself)

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Business is Business....AND... Math is math...
No matter what you do or how you stack it.... 2 + 2 will always equal 4

Therefore...
Gross Profits - Expenses, etc = net profit.
And at the end of the day... Net Profit is more important than Gross.
Because that is what you get to put in you pocket.

Bandwidth charges, server breakdown, webdesigner labour costs, etc.
It can literally be anything... So if you have to pay for it in order to do business.
Guess what ??? It is an expense.
Technology is the only thing that changes. Not the math.

Finally as for your comments about attracting customers and target marketing.....

I will stay away from Mexicans and use a British analogy...

A person that earns £3 million a year does not rent and live in bachelor apartment with an annoying dripping facette above a Chineese resturant in Soho's "street pr*stitute" district.

And unless he owns the ASDA.... I don't think he will be worrying about too much about the special on frozen Bangers and Mash.

Therefore, if you have a place to interface with the public in order to sell them something. (good or service) You have a store!
It may not be "brick and morter" and what you call an expense may change.
But at the end of the day you will still have to total your numbers the same as everyone else.

So if you want to lower some of those costs you might want to reconsider "the shotgun approach" to finding customers
and do some old fashion math and target marketing.

Originally Posted by Michel Samuel

I belive the expression is...
Who put a bee in your bonet ?

You did. I found your post racially offensive. From reading your response it looks like you honestly weren't trying to insult anyone, which is a good thing, but I think it's worse to passively accept racism than to be a skinhead. Those are a dieing breed, and they're not the ones carrying the problem along. There are a great deal of Mexicans - and Peruvians and Salvadoreans and Hondurans, et cetera et cetera - in my neighborhood, who invite us to BBQs and come over to watch the game, and not one of them has ever ruined my bathroom or allowed their child to break my door. That's what put a bee in my bonnet.

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

You did. I found your post racially offensive. From reading your response it looks like you honestly weren't trying to insult anyone, which is a good thing, but I think it's worse to passively accept racism than to be a skinhead. Those are a dieing breed, and they're not the ones carrying the problem along. There are a great deal of Mexicans - and Peruvians and Salvadoreans and Hondurans, et cetera et cetera - in my neighborhood, who invite us to BBQs and come over to watch the game, and not one of them has ever ruined my bathroom or allowed their child to break my door. That's what put a bee in my bonnet.

There are 2 sides to the entire "Offend and Offended" scenario.

While it can be argued that there are people in this world that go out of their way to be offensive....

Their power to be offensive falls apart if you do not take offense.

And to be blunt...
In a free, democratic society the liberty of speech falls apart when the majority of citizens become intolerant of conversations they may not agree with or dislike.

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On that note,
There are a lot of people in my life and this world in general that I would LOVE to slander. In fact I would welcome them crossing the street in front of my car. Yes it is a human failing on my part.

However, I am happy to report that my reasons for my intolerance and dislike have absolutely nothing to do with race, colour, gender, religion, sexual orientation, immigrant status or even financial class.

But racism wasn't the purpose of my post. I'm discussing various business aspects.

Originally Posted by Michel Samuel

In a free, democratic society the liberty of speech falls apart when the majority of citizens become intolerant of conversations they may not agree with or dislike.

Now this is going more and more off-topic and having less and less to do with business - other than everyone should realize that slandering a huge class of people is probably not great for business - I have no choice but to point out how ridiculous it sounds whenever somebody tells me I should be tolerant of intolerance. If you're going to say in public that Mexicans are killing your business by existing, and that they produce unruly children who break your door and destroy your bathroom, and act as leaches to destroy your business - which is what this thread devoted a full page to - then I don't understand why such intolerance should expect anything but the same (intolerance) in return?? Jesus tells us "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If you can't stand not to be tolerated for inventing a story where freeloading "lookey-loo" Mexicans kill your business, then you probably should learn to tolerate people you dislike.

/rant

Originally Posted by Learning Newbie

Now this is going more and more off-topic and having less and less to do with business - other than everyone should realize that slandering a huge class of people is probably not great for business - I have no choice but to point out how ridiculous it sounds whenever somebody tells me I should be tolerant of intolerance. If you're going to say in public that Mexicans are killing your business by existing, and that they produce unruly children who break your door and destroy your bathroom, and act as leaches to destroy your business - which is what this thread devoted a full page to - then I don't understand why such intolerance should expect anything but the same (intolerance) in return?? Jesus tells us "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If you can't stand not to be tolerated for inventing a story where freeloading "lookey-loo" Mexicans kill your business, then you probably should learn to tolerate people you dislike.

/rant

I really like Jesus. Because like myself, he is (was) a jew.

So tell you what.... I admit defeat. I was wrong and you righteously put me in my place. Therefore I extend my full apologies to all that may have been offended by my analogy. We all make mistakes, so please don't let my ignorance disturb you.

And most of all cheer and smile because Jesus loves you.

Um ... I think Michel was actually trying to help people by posting this. It's admirable to stand up for your beliefs, but it's probably going a little too far to rake the guy over the coals for trying to be helpful. I'm not even going to touch the issue that sparked a fight, but I come here to learn new ways to improve my web site, and to share what I've learned with others ... I'm guessing most people do, since this forum is called webmaster-talk. Most people set up web sites to make money, and a lot of them never stop to think about what Michel is saying. In the US, we have a saying that "no good deed goes unpunished," and that really needs to stop being true.

I would disagree about how much you need to invest into publishing a web site versus a brick and mortar shop, but time is money, and it took me a lot of time putting my web site together, when I could have been shooting portraits, or talking to people about buying rights to republish my photos. Michel is advising people to check their ROI every now and then, and change their plan if they need to.

I don't know, the message just doesn't seem very hateful to me, so I think the guy deserves a bit of respect, and the benefit of the doubt.

Originally Posted by ForrestCroce

I would disagree about how much you need to invest into publishing a web site versus a brick and mortar shop, but time is money, and it took me a lot of time putting my web site together, when I could have been shooting portraits, or talking to people about buying rights to republish my photos.

You know one fault I have always found with entrepeneurs is we tend to factor the work we do as a "null" equation. And by that I mean most tend not to stop and think that the hard work they do has a dollar value.

It can be thought of in 2 ways.

1) If we had to pay someone else to do the job... What would they get ? So you have to ask yourself if at the end of the day you don't get at least similar, is the project worth it ?

2) Time is money ! And the effort you put into one endevour could be used in another. So if you're creating a site when you could be earning money so place else, that too then becomes a factor.

Therefore if you're a mechanic and spend 15 hours in a month creating a website about auto repairs that only earns you 200....
When you could be changing a transmission and doing a head gasket repair for the same length of time and getting 1,000. Is the site worth persuing ?

Either this thread stays on topic or I'm going to lock it. Enough with the arguments !