Website Design Forum

**Michel Samuel** · 07-26-2007, 02:12 PM

I've got hotlinking shut down in my .htaccess file.
But now I've got turkeys deeplinking directly into the site.
I need to force people to go to the index page.

Anyone know where I can find the answer on this one ?

**tripy** · 07-26-2007, 02:49 PM

did you tried this method, or just a basic .htaccess rule ?
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/hotlinking/

**Michel Samuel** · 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripy

did you tried this method, or just a basic .htaccess rule ?
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/hotlinking/

The problem isn't hotlinking. (Ie. stealing my images)
And from what I gathered the article was about that.

I'm trying to keep people from bypassing my entrance page.
I've basically got some twits on a forum that think a couple of my photos gallary pages are cool.
Since they can't hotlink the photos...
The provided a deeplink into the gallery. Thereby bypassing all my "please pay for these photos if you want non watermarked" notices and my advertiser click thrus

**tripy** · 07-26-2007, 04:48 PM

For that, pure HTML will not be enough, you will need a server side language to be available.
PHP, JSP, ASP, whatever.

I'll give you an PHP hint here, since I don't know those others languages.

To do that in PHP, start by defining a page which will be prepended before every "normal page".
You can do that with an auto_prepend_file directive to php, or by doing include() in each normal pages.

In this file, you check if a specific variable exists in the session.
If it don't exists, you can consider that the user landed on the page from a deep link, and you redirect him to the "index" page, which will set this variable in the user's session.

So, for the prepended script:

PHP Code:


			
<?php
if(!isset($_SESSION['allowed'])){
  header('location:/gallery/index.php');
  exit();
}
?>

And on the gallery index page:

PHP Code:


			
<?php
$_SESSION['allowed']=1;
?>
<html>
 <head>
  .... put the rest of your page here ...

And on the gallery pages, add an include to the prepended check script:

PHP Code:


			
<?php
include_once($_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT']."/gallery/prepend.php");
?>
<html>
  <head>
  ... The normal content here...

And this will solve your problem.
Once the user have gone through the page that set the variable "allowed" in his session, he won't be redirected anynore

**Michel Samuel** · 07-26-2007, 05:49 PM

I've got to look this over in the morning.
All this technical is just going over my head right now.
It will probably make sense to me after a night sleep.

I just wanted to make sure I said thank you before hitting the bed.

Thanks for the help. It is greatly appreciated.

**vangogh** · 07-27-2007, 12:28 AM

Michel to be honest you can't control what page someone is going to enter your site. Instead of trying to force people to come in through the front door welcome them in any way they want to show up.

All you're really doing by forcing them to enter at one place is telling people you really don't want them there. The web isn't about control. It's about being flexible and accepting that people have different wants and needs and aren't always going to do what you want them to.

If you have a business model that requires people to enter the site in one place then it's a business model that is likely headed for failure.

Those 'twits' are actually doing you a favor by linking to you. Links are the currency of the web. Each link is a new avenue into your site. Not every avenue is going to run by the front door. Some will run past your back door and others on the side door. Deep links are great for a site.

I think you're trying very hard to apply offline methods online and in the end it's not going to work. Online is different than offline. There are different rules trying to force offline rules has been failing for the last 10 years.

**ForrestCroce** · 07-27-2007, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michel Samuel

I'm trying to keep people from bypassing my entrance page.
I've basically got some twits on a forum that think a couple of my photos gallary pages are cool.
Since they can't hotlink the photos...
The provided a deeplink into the gallery. Thereby bypassing all my "please pay for these photos if you want non watermarked" notices and my advertiser click thrus

You have much deeper problems than hotlinking.

As Steve pointed out, people are doing you a favor. They're also doing something that's very customary in the culture they're operating in - the online world. It's perfectly legal to link to any page you find interesting, and people sometimes pay for those links. I understand you have a different way of doing things, and about © and watermarked photos in particular.

But the way you're approaching things is very, very far off the mark and not good for anyone. Imagine if I set up shop in the countryside in France, selling iPods, MTVs, and Pepsi, and insist everyone in my store speak to each other only in English, wear jeans, and pay in USD only. In some ways it's not a great analogy, but in others it's pretty accurate. And I'm bringing this up as a fellow photographer halfway across the world who isn't competing with you.

Are there watermarked galleries or versions of the photos? It sounds like, but it also sounds like the people linking to your photos aren't aware of them. Since the way you're doing business goes against the local grain, you would do yourself a favor to make your intentions clear to your visitors. Give them the URL to the watermarked, public version of a gallery so it's easy for them to recommend you to other potential buyers.

If you're selling access to your photos, you really need a log-in system with a user database. It sounds like you're trying to get around this need with popsicle sticks and bubble gum - I don't know the French version of that saying, maybe baked merde - by using static html and keeping the URLs to the paid stuff secret. As you've noticed, that doesn't work from a human behavior standpoint, and it doesn't work from a patch it up in .htaccess standpoint.

In the US, a guy hosted some illegal files behind a entrance page that said "law enforcement isn't authorized to enter this web site." The court decided that if you don't enforce something like that with a password system, you don't have the right to legal recourse. That was a criminal case, but if you decided to sue ... and you brought that up about Alexa ... you'd strengthen your case tenfold by putting a lock on your door.

And .htaccess just won't provide the kind of lock you need, unless you want to manage a whitelist of IP addresses you'll serve certain pages to. Know that for every "hit" to your server - an html file, a jpeg, a css file, js, whatever; it takes about 20 hits to render a page - the entire .htaccess file is processed. That's why changes are immediate, they aren't cached. The bigger the file gets, the more strain you put on the server. There are a million drop-in user systems, and people on this very site would be happy to guide you through setting any of them up. You sound a lot more tech savvy than most people in charge of a web site.

Finally, the fact that people think your photo galleries are cool ... that's the point! Take it as a complement, not a threat.

Show you mine, show me yours? In the States, we say "put your money where your mouth is" ... if it's good advice to give, it's good advice to take. I'm a pretty smart cookie, and if people seeing my work was a bad thing, I know how to keep a digital secret. This is Big Sur, on the California coast:

A friend of mine from Scandinavia told me visitors from the web come in through the living-room window, go to the kitchen and raid the fridge, come up to the bedroom to say hello, and then leave through the garage. As a concierge, you just have to plan for random comings and goings, and do your best to accommodate them while making sure the rules are observed.

Only, Petteri said it a lot more eloquently than I just did.

**Michel Samuel** · 07-27-2007, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

Michel to be honest you can't control what page someone is going to enter your site. Instead of trying to force people to come in through the front door welcome them in any way they want to show up.

All you're really doing by forcing them to enter at one place is telling people you really don't want them there. The web isn't about control. It's about being flexible and accepting that people have different wants and needs and aren't always going to do what you want them to.

If you have a business model that requires people to enter the site in one place then it's a business model that is likely headed for failure.

Those 'twits' are actually doing you a favor by linking to you. Links are the currency of the web. Each link is a new avenue into your site. Not every avenue is going to run by the front door. Some will run past your back door and others on the side door. Deep links are great for a site.

I think you're trying very hard to apply offline methods online and in the end it's not going to work. Online is different than offline. There are different rules trying to force offline rules has been failing for the last 10 years.

Website busness practices isn't being taught in a university yet.
Therefore let me state that 97% of my website endevours involve a lot of experimentation.
I need to learn what works and what doesn't for if and when I roll out with a big project.
All my images are watermarked. Nothing gets put on the net for me without it.

Having said that, I'm going try putting my foot down on these people to use my front door.
I want to see what happens.

**vangogh** · 07-27-2007, 02:20 PM

There's nothing wrong with experimenting. I think that's exactly what you should do. But even if there is no university courses about online business practices yet there's plenty of information online.

One concept of the web is it's not about forcing people to do what you want them to. It's about adapting to give people what they want.

I pretty sure I can tell you what will happen if you force people through the front door. Some will knock and come in. Most will look for another house.

**ForrestCroce** · 07-28-2007, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

I pretty sure I can tell you what will happen if you force people through the front door. Some will knock and come in. Most will look for another house.

A pretty big company used to run under the slogan "have it your way." The idea was to convince the customer she or he would be comfortable there, so people will come in to spend their money.

They understood something about web and offline marketing that's taught in a lot of universities: don't alienate the customer. I don't understand how a person in a service or sales industry could be so determined to cut off channels customers can reach them through. It's not my purpose in life to understand your business model, but as it stands if I wanted to give you my money, a geo-IP lookup would prevent me from getting into your site. People in your country who have the Alexa toolbar installed will get locked out. Of the narrow demographic left, are you sure you want to limit yourself to the ones who don't mind the navigation style you're imposing?

Anyway, you asked how, now whether, but you're getting this advice because it would be almost negligent not to point this stuff out.

You lean on .htaccess as a solution a lot, so you're running an Apache server. That means you almost certainly have access to PHP and MySQL. Are you familiar with these? If you're determined to force viewers through the front door, this is what you'll need, at a minimum:

A table in the database for users.
Another table for pages in your site, or blurbs of content you want to show - it sounds like you have a page with a gallery full of thumbnails, and link out to pages (?) with jpeg files on them?
A third table linking the users to the pages they're allowed to view.
The pages in your site written in PHP and not static html. With an include, or whatever method you'd like, before any page renders, it checks the session to make sure the user is logged in, and assuming they are, it checks to see whether they're allowed to view the content they're asking for. You either send it, if they've paid, or redirect them to the front door.
A log-in page. You can use cookies so a person is logged in automatically, like on this site.

You might be able to use WordPress to do all of that. I really don't know, I've only used it to write two posts in a conventional blog ... and one more as a guest writer. But I'm pretty sure it has a user log-in system as an option for leaving comments, it allows themed "static" pages, and it's pretty changeable if you know PHP.

**tarponkeith** · 07-28-2007, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripy

For that, pure HTML will not be enough, you will need a server side language to be available.
PHP, JSP, ASP, whatever.

I'll give you an PHP hint here, since I don't know those others languages.
<SNIP>

I'll do the ASP!

Code:

dim myReferer
myreferer = Request.ServerVariables("HTTP_REFERER")

if instr(1, lcase(myreferer), "http://www.yourdomain.com") = 0 then
    response.redirect("http://www.yourdomain.com/index.asp")
    response.end
end if

**ADAM Web Design** · 07-28-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Website busness practices isn't being taught in a university yet.

Thank the baby Jesus for that. If universities start getting involved in website business practices (at least Canadian ones), no good can come of it. They can't even handle web design best coding practices, never mind business practices.

Michel: there's a much easier way to deal with this issue, and that's to indicate on the gallery pages that "if you want a non-watermarked image, pay $9.95" or whatever your payment method is. Let the "twits" link to you, as was pointed out to you earlier.

As far as your "advertiser click thrus", people coming to your site to look at those pictures are interested in the pictures and probably aren't going to be interested in the advertisers anyway. And if you're talking about interstitial or popup ads...well, that's just a site killer.

This isn't even something you should be experimenting with...you're juggling nitro here.

**Michel Samuel** · 07-28-2007, 03:04 PM

I love this dialogue...
Let me explain another part of this probleme no one is examining.

Culture...

I am French (well I'm francophone but not from France)

But my customers are French.
What anglos call "alienation" is perfectly normal in France.

Allow me to explain...
Here in france you can NOT have it your way. You must take it as we give it.
You do not have to be happy about and no one cares.

In the super markets you will wait in extremy long lines.
The cashier will stop to answer her cell phone
and even walk away for a cigarette leaving a very long line.
The super market "bouncer" (almost always a tall black man) will chase you and yell at you.
If you do not put things back on the shelf exactly where you found them.

We open up franchises stores in France but almost none will have the same
price on the same items.
Plus we will mail you the sales flyer on the last day of the sale for that week.

If in the sales flyer it advertises running shoes are 50% on sale. It won't matter if
the same brand and make of shoe is on the shelf.
If the shoe in the picture is red and all the shoes on the shelves are blue or white.
You must pay full price.

In France...
Between the enourmous amount of useless paperwork and absurd rules.
Customer service departments that will fight back and kick you out of the store.

People will still buy your product..
If you tell them it is BCBG. (Bon chic bon genre) and charge 10% more than anyone else.
-----
In France you only get customer service is you are a tourist and NOT French.
But the moment you move here you must accept it like everyone else.

-------------

Therefore...
I think I have a 50% chance of my "go through the front door only" policy working.

**tripy** · 07-28-2007, 04:41 PM

[irony]
Ah, ces frouzes !
[/irony]

Sorry, could not refrain, being a neighbor of France.....

**ADAM Web Design** · 07-28-2007, 04:47 PM

Dude, you just described Canada as well without ever meaning too. Tres bien...or not...I'm really not sure!

**ForrestCroce** · 07-28-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michel Samuel

Let me explain another part of this probleme no one is examining.

Culture...

But my customers are French.
What anglos call "alienation" is perfectly normal in France.

-------------

Therefore...
I think I have a 50% chance of my "go through the front door only" policy working.

I hope you understand the advice you're getting here is just that ... advice that people think will help your business, not argument.

Since this is a global forum, and you've had advice from Seattle, Toronto, and who knows where else, have probably been read by people from Australia and India to nearby Switzerland ... a lot of us have never set foot in la belle France, and aren't aware of how poorly consumers are treated there. If that's something they expect and don't object to, well, you know the details, expectations, and tolerance better than anyone.

But I hope you realize the side point this brings up. You're doing business in another culture, the online world. In this culture, it's customary to do things like link to pages that are publically available on the international web. This culture has different expectations and norms.

**Michel Samuel** · 07-28-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADAM Web Design

Dude, you just described Canada as well without ever meaning too. Tres bien...or not...I'm really not sure!

Well I live in france but where do you think I was born and raised ?

I mean come on...
England thought it won the war in Canada in 1754
But the Québecois didn't stop fighting for over 200 more years.
Now Québec is independant within Canada.
But give it another 200 years and it will BE Canada.

Never under estimate French militance.
Oh and I'm Francophone but not Québecois.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForrestCroce

I hope you understand the advice you're getting here is just that ... advice that people think will help your business, not argument.

Since this is a global forum, and you've had advice from Seattle, Toronto, and who knows where else, have probably been read by people from Australia and India to nearby Switzerland ... a lot of us have never set foot in la belle France, and aren't aware of how poorly consumers are treated there. If that's something they expect and don't object to, well, you know the details, expectations, and tolerance better than anyone.

But I hope you realize the side point this brings up. You're doing business in another culture, the online world. In this culture, it's customary to do things like link to pages that are publically available on the international web. This culture has different expectations and norms.

LOL
Relax...
I'm really really hard to offend.

But culture does factor into the equation.
I hate to say it but knowing France like I do...
Unless my site has conforms to a "certain expectation."
It won't sell.

It's profitable now...
I'm just tweaking it to make it more so profitable.

**vangogh** · 07-29-2007, 02:18 PM

Michel I think you're missing two important points. One of them is again that you're assuming that people will behave the same online as they do offline.

All the things you describe are accepted because offline there aren't any other choices. Or at least not any simple choices. Online it's a different matter. The web is not located in France even if that's where most of your customers are. You may be forcing customers through the front door, but there's another site that isn't.

Pretend for a moment that in a town there is one supermarket and the nearest market is in a town 30 minutes away. We'll put up with a lot from that supermarket, because it's an effort to visit the one in the next town. It's a lot less effort to visit another website.

Also why assume all your customers are French. You sell images right? People in all countries like images. Maybe your images will appeal more to French people, but that's still missing out on a lot of potential customers. Maybe a higher percentage of the French will want your images, but there are far more non French people on the web the French people.

I think you're looking at the web and trying to force it to be offline and make the assumption that the things you do offline will work the same online. They won't.

Culture is an important aspect of building a successful site, but I think you're limiting yourself way to much with your approach.

**Michel Samuel** · 07-29-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vangogh

Michel I think you're missing two important points. One of them is again that you're assuming that people will behave the same online as they do offline.

All the things you describe are accepted because offline there aren't any other choices. Or at least not any simple choices. Online it's a different matter. The web is not located in France even if that's where most of your customers are. You may be forcing customers through the front door, but there's another site that isn't.

Pretend for a moment that in a town there is one supermarket and the nearest market is in a town 30 minutes away. We'll put up with a lot from that supermarket, because it's an effort to visit the one in the next town. It's a lot less effort to visit another website.

Also why assume all your customers are French. You sell images right? People in all countries like images. Maybe your images will appeal more to French people, but that's still missing out on a lot of potential customers. Maybe a higher percentage of the French will want your images, but there are far more non French people on the web the French people.

I think you're looking at the web and trying to force it to be offline and make the assumption that the things you do offline will work the same online. They won't.

Culture is an important aspect of building a successful site, but I think you're limiting yourself way to much with your approach.

I know there are image brokers, etc on the net and most people just need to drop a credit card. I'm dealing in a specialty for the film industry and things get complicated with the "rights" and licensing conditions. I get away with a bit more because I can play my dual citizen status to my advantage. But I have to balance it with my gouvernment rebates.

But on that note,
Well without getting into "french beaucracy" and "french bizarreness"
Let's just say that it is

1) A nightmare for me to do any kind of serious business outside of france. Even within the E.U.

2) It's a similar nightmare for many people to get my product from people outside of france. My closest compettion makes it clear that you can only establish an appointment via the net. You have to go into his office to pay and sign the documents.

Unless you have lived and worked in France for more than 2 years. Or operated a business with employees. No one can fully comprend a society that makes it ilegal to work more than 30 hours a week and requires you to have certification of the marital status of your grandparents.

Please don't take this the wrong way.
But anglophone, especially american, capitalism rules do not apply here.

**vangogh** · 07-29-2007, 08:58 PM

Michel I'll take you word for it that operating in a French culture is different than operating in other cultures. And since you've never really told us outright how your business operates we can only guess a little here and there.

But if your business is so specific I have to ask why have a completely public website? It sounds like you only want a very small group of people entering and that most of those people will only come to the site after you've made them aware of it through an offline promotion.

Why not have the whole site behind some form of password protection? The simple truth is if you make pages accessible publicly then you're not going to be able to control where people enter.

You really are trying to force non internet concepts on the internet.