Website Review and Suggestions

**tonya** · 12-16-2010, 06:05 AM

Well its finished

the only problem is my keywords are not producing any google results - not sure why ??

anyway while I work that out what does everyone thing

its adapted from a css template & first time i have done that

http://www.no5bandb.co.uk/

cheers

**Chelle** · 12-18-2010, 09:34 AM

Looks good - the only thing I would change is make the background for the text white or a lighter gray

**Madman340** · 12-18-2010, 05:22 PM

Yes, definitely update the background of the foreground page to white or at least a light grey.

PS: you aren't getting results from Google because above all else it takes time and persistence to get decent traffic just from search engines.

**PaulW** · 12-18-2010, 10:12 PM

Get your site onto as many appropriate directories and other sites as possible, eg local village sites, tourism sites. Some will drive traffic, some will just serve to boost number of links. Add a couple of pages about local facilities and general touristy stuff -- drop in famous place name/attractions. Change alt text on every image to include more of your keywords -- eg "No 5 Bed and breakfast accommoddation in the Malverns" rather than just "NUmber 5 College Grove"

**davemies** · 12-19-2010, 05:22 AM

you should only have on h1 per page

and the black text on dark grey is difficult - change the text background to light silver-(say #e0e0e0)

try this for your headings (either as text colour or background strip)
#897D65

**chrishirst** · 12-19-2010, 05:33 AM

Quote:

you should only have on h1 per page

Nope, you can use as many H1 headings as you need.

**chrishirst** · 12-19-2010, 05:34 AM

Quote:

"No 5 Bed and breakfast accommoddation in the Malverns" rather than just "NUmber 5 College Grove"

Only if you are chasing the vague results from "rankings"

If you are randing the use the latter.

**davemies** · 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishirst

Nope, you can use as many H1 headings as you need.

in html 5 maybe ... but h1 should be the main heading of the page and then everything should be below that in the hierarchy in semantically well formed page.

unless of course chris you know something we don't

oh and btw the white header text "(Quality Bed and Breakfast Accommodation Great Malvern, Worcestershire" is lost in places against the lighter, whiter parts of the background image

and "We are on facebook " and "breakfasts" should be subheadings (what do you think Chris?

) and you have a typo "breakfast's" here

double full-stop here "Large groups and families welcome as well as couples or single occupants. . "

"no hassle simple book" this could do with some work, maybe 'no hassle simple booking" or "no hassle simple-book" ?

**PaulW** · 12-19-2010, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davemies

in html 5 maybe ... but h1 should be the main heading of the page and then everything should be below that in the hierarchy in semantically well formed page.

http://www.barrywise.com/2008/08/why...mantic-markup/ from 2008 - is it still true?

**chrishirst** · 12-19-2010, 06:14 AM

Quote:

in html 5 maybe ... but h1 should be the main heading of the page and then everything should be below that in the hierarchy in semantically well formed page.

unless of course chris you know something we don't

There is nothing in any HTML specifications that dictates only ONE H1 heading per page. It is merely an accepted convention.
It really has grown up from the (possibly mistaken) belief that text in a H1 heading is more "important" for search engines

If your page has several sections there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why each section should not have a h1 heading to deliniate the sections in user agents that DO put significance on the heading hierarchy.

**davemies** · 06:53 AM

i'm talking from a semantic point of view and what has been accepted good practice for a long time:

merely accepted conventions = good practice

an h1 denotes the overarching idea for that page - you can easily subdivide sections with h2s. a single h1 will at a glance (or a sound if being read out loud) tell you what that page is about, h2s giving an succinct idea for each section and so on.

i've never used it for seo specifically, only because it makes sense in a well structured document (in almost an medium) to have a single umbrella heading (think newspaper headline, article, report, essay, chapter title, ...

read the bit under -Heading Guidance
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archiv...ment_outlines/

note: the author (of berea street) also has questions only onyl using one h1 per page
"Many recommend using only one h1 heading on a page. Why, exactly, and what problems would using two (or more) level 1 headings create? Some concrete examples would be nice."

though to me it seems obvious

**chrishirst** · 12-19-2010, 08:03 AM

No, accepted conventions != good practice ... accepted convention may equal "expedient" but not necessarily "good practice"

Quote:

have a single umbrella heading (think newspaper headline, article, report, essay, chapter title, ...

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT for a page that is a single structure page with a single topic.

However you need to leave newspaper headlines aside, because they have a purpose other than setting the topic for the entire page.

"Good practice" and "semantic" when applied to HTML are about doing what is appropriate for the page in question, and if the page covers several topics, maybe as summaries of other stories/articles/pages then it would be appropriate to deliniate the topics with an "important" heading.

**davemies** · 12-19-2010, 08:23 AM

"No, accepted conventions != good practice ... accepted convention may equal "expedient" but not necessarily "good practice"" if you're going to pick over every word and say maybe but not in every case then give us some examples - fine leave newspaper heading aside but what about everything else?

show us how then, instead of picking at the odd loose thread of my argument, which is getting pedantic and tiring.

if a page covers say summaries of other stories/articles/pages then what sort of page is it? maybe a news page or something that could quite logically be uber-headlined with a e.g. "news" or similar.

**chrishirst** · 12-19-2010, 10:01 AM

Point me to an authoratitive page where it states categorically that heading 1 elements cannot be used more than once on a page and therefore should be treated differently to the other heading elements and I will cease being devils advocate in this case.

Where is it that tells me I cannot put three or four (or more) products on a page and use a H1 element to tell the viewer what each product is?
Or should I have a heading of "Products" for the page?
Which would of course be little help to anyone.

**davemies** · 12-19-2010, 10:37 AM

i think you're being devil's advocate just for the fun of it

point me to an authoritative page where it says you should use as many h1s as you feel like (or 'fit')

fine. if you have a products page and you want to use an h1 for each product then go ahead - but what's that product page called in the navigation?
did you click on a link called 'products' or similar? yes of course you did (maybe not in every case, but then fine don't use only h1 then...) so why not name that page <h1>products</h1> and then use h2 for corresponding products? yes sure you could use them as you said but where's the sense in that?
i'm still waiting for an example of your usage showing how it's better than the conventional way.

if you can show me an example of using multiple h1s that makes more sense than just one h1 then i will conceded that yes, if you want to be devil's advocate then you can use multiple h1s.
i'm not saying it's set in stone that you must use only h1, just that it is a widely accepted convention - and IMO (and that of many others) - it's a sensible idea. the w3c site also suggests such a document structure.

now i've said pretty much all i can be bothered to say now, pending your actual page showing how it works better, so if you want to make more arguments for the case of multiple h1s then go ahead and i'm sure you may pick up a convert or two along the way of the bloody-minded persuasion

i think that in lieu of working examples we both might have to put this down to a matter of opinion, though i as you say you're playing devil's advocate

if you do put multiple h1s - even as a test - the whole internet may disappear. indeed, it probably already has many times before.

**chrishirst** · 12-19-2010, 11:54 AM

This what the usability guidelines say about headings

Quote:

Well-written headings are an important tool for helping users scan quickly. Headings should conceptually relate to the information or functions that follow them.
Headings should provide strong cues that orient users and inform them about page organization and structure. Headings also help classify information on a page. Each heading should be helpful in finding the desired target.
The ability to scan quickly is particularly important for older adults because they tend to stop scanning and start reading more frequently. If headings are not descriptive or plentiful enough, the user may start reading in places that do not offer the information they are seeking, thereby slowing them down unnecessarily.
Sources: Bailey, Koyani and Nall, 2000

http://www.usability.gov/pdfs/chapter9.pdf

I play devils advocate where advice is ambiguous.
Your statement of "only one H1 per page" is not 100% correct nor is it 100% incorrect.

It is the opinion of an individual or group of individuals NOT a rule or law that must be obeyed.
If anyone wants to follow that path then that is their perogative. However it is NOT the only way and it is NOT the 100% absolutely correct way.

BTW THIS -:

Quote:

Guideline: Put a descriptive, unique, concise, and meaningfully different title on each Web page.
Comments: Title refers to the text that is in the browser title bar (this is the bar found at the very top of the browser screen). Titles are used by search engines to identify pages. If two or more pages have the same title, they cannot be differentiated by users or the Favorites capability of the browser. If users bookmark a page, they should not have to edit the title to meet the characteristics mentioned above.
Remember that some search engines only list the titles in their search results page. Using concise and meaningful titles on all pages can help orient users as they browse a page or scan hot lists and history lists for particular URLs. They can also help others as they compile links to your pages.
To avoid confusing users, make the title that appears in the heading of the browser consistent with the title in the content area of the pages.

is what the usabilty guidelines say about TITLES

Quote:

if you do put multiple h1s - even as a test - the whole internet may disappear. indeed, it probably already has many times before.

Nope, been there done it.
We had a fairly successful commercial site (sold off a few years ago) that used H1 headings for each of the products (5 to a page) and it didn't bother the users or Search engines and we averaged a 9% conversion from Search traffic.
We used to get a lot of comments expressing how easy it was to locate a particular product, and I've taken that as a guideline ever since.

Sure you could use H2s and increase the size so they are "scannable" by visitors but where is the difference?
If a heading 1 can only be used once why can the rest be used several times?

They are not defined as

<pageheading>
<topicheading>
<paragraphheading>

They are simply given a number and browsers display them (by default) in decreasing font sizes

The W3c gives a HTML document structure as

HTML Code:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
   "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<HTML>
   <HEAD>
      <TITLE>My first HTML document</TITLE>
   </HEAD>
   <BODY>
      <P>Hello world!
   </BODY>
</HTML>

No <h1> there as first element in the page body as a overall page heading.

AND in the section on headings

Quote:

A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it introduces. Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to construct a table of contents for a document automatically.

Does THAT say that only one H1 is allowed on each page?

HTML Code:

<DIV class="section" id="forest-elephants" >
<H1>Forest elephants</H1>
<P>In this section, we discuss the lesser known forest elephants.
...this section continues...
<DIV class="subsection" id="forest-habitat" >
<H2>Habitat</H2>
<P>Forest elephants do not live in trees but among them.
...this subsection continues...
</DIV>
</DIV>

DIVisions are used to structure the page NOT heading elements.

**chrishirst** · 12-19-2010, 12:13 PM

http://www.webmaster-talk.com/genera...-davemies.html

**jdub1977** · 12-20-2010, 12:23 PM

I am having trouble reading the text in your header. Try adding a stroke to the text and it should "pop". A glow might also look good. Other than that it looks nice!

**dagaul102** · 12-20-2010, 06:33 PM

Nice site, love the pictures, but a little bit more description in the header as opposed to the same white text, so people know exactly where it is, as the first thing they notice in the header

**amcg** · 12-21-2010, 03:19 AM

Even Ruth Watson would be proud of this site!

The only thing is the "Quality Bed and Breakfast Accommodation Great Malvern, Worcestershire" text at the top which you cant really read properly as its over the picture.