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My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
Old 09-22-2006, 01:00 AM My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Dear masters,

I almost finished this site recently and am trying to bring it up in searches by big engines like google and yahoo.

I did all they require but still the site shows up many pages behind.

Can someone help me how can I improve the site so that it will have better ranking?

The school has no budget to promote the URL by the way..., so any free tips would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.mrs-christian.com

Last edited by Richard Yim; 09-22-2006 at 01:02 AM..
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Old 09-22-2006, 01:38 AM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Firstly, the site appears to be very ammature and I think the design needs professionalising greatly.

As for the Search ranking... that's probably because the page is not very rich in keywords and I'm taking there aren't many links pointing to your site.

Post your site in web directories to boost your links. Put it on your other sites. Add your sites keywords to your site. Lose the frame layout. Drop the javascript navigation. and finally don't popup the background music in a seperate window.
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Old 09-22-2006, 03:45 AM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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ill second that.

Please go to http://www.cssbeauty.com for more inspiration on design and layout.
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Old 09-22-2006, 03:25 PM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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the main page is too big for small screens
the site looks good.
nice colors
menu is well designed
images are fine
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Old 09-23-2006, 01:09 AM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Thanks for all your feedbacks.

The school master, who asked me to work on their school website, wished that I design her website after another school which used the xara menu. And one of the board menbers wished the school aerial view to be the opening page, and also the music that is played at the opening page, against my advice.

Thus I had to produce such design that is employed now to suites them.

As for the idea of loosing the frame design, I personally don't like the long drawn pages like newspapers as some here seem to believe to be professional looking which to me is nothing but newspaper type look, lacking creativities and pleasing looks. Why most of new flash templates that are designed nowadays stay with the design of one screen size instead of long drawn with so many tables?

Any rate, I appreciate the advice on leaving some links to the new site, which I have tried.

As for the site's keywords not rich enough, I thought for a while I put too many.... Oh well.

Thanks Crush123 for your positive feedback. Any other critics or advice?

Last edited by Richard Yim; 09-23-2006 at 01:31 AM..
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Old 09-23-2006, 02:00 AM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Yim View Post
As for the site's keywords not rich enough, I thought for a while I put too many.... Oh well.
Not the <meta> keywords, I mean the ones on the page. There has to be keywords on the page to give your page a little density on those keywords in the search engines/
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Old 09-23-2006, 02:40 AM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Thanks Rich (or Galaxian) for that specific advice. Per your advice, I added more keywords at the introduction that scrolls up by <marquee>.

And I also added the site to a dozen free web directories out there.

Thanks again for taking time to share your know how.

And I appreciate once again for those who freely share their know hows here for the benefit of us all. Thanks admin and moderators who keep this forum going.

I am learning a lot here.
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Old 09-23-2006, 02:14 PM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Hey Crush123,

Per your suggestion, I made the background image smaller and a bit lighter.
is that size good enough for the small screens that you wrote about?

Again I would appreciate your feedback. I don't mind negative critics by the way.
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Old 09-23-2006, 02:30 PM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Keywords won't get you a high ranking since most of the big search engines mostly ignore them any more. The biggest thing is incoming RELEVANT links to the site.

Problems I see:
- You have no text navigation - it's all images, SE spiders don't 'see' images.
- You have no content on the home page - SE's love content
- Since you have no content, you have no headings or anything else for a search engine to index.

Lose the Marquee scrolling text.
I would find another way to incorporate the ariel view of the school and make a REAL home page, with real content. If they insist on that photo, I'd make it into a watermark background. If I were the designer, I'd talk them out of using it altogether -- at least that way.

Your graphics on top of the image look horrid .. which is another reason to NOT use that photo as a background. It's also a large graphic which will be slow to load for a lot of people. It's a whopping 298K !!! Too big by far.
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Old 09-23-2006, 02:55 PM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Thanks LadynRed (aka Web Mistress) for your input!

I read about the SE not paying attention to KEYwords any more, so I understand what you are suggesting here.

So I put back quickly the home page which I started with removing the big aerial view of the school site which one of the board members loves to show off.

Will my new home page improve the situation? http://www.mrs-christian.com

Thanks again for your very valid critics.

Last edited by Richard Yim; 09-24-2006 at 01:03 PM..
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Old 09-24-2006, 01:35 PM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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very bad design, it's awful
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Old 09-24-2006, 05:28 PM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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What this boils down to is quite simple: you're looking at this from precisely the wrong angle, Richard.

The reason I say that is because you're looking at it from the search engine angle without any regard to the end user. There are two things that can go very wrong in this scenario:

1) You obsess so much over search engines, keyword density, link exchange, doorway pages, and God knows what else and end up missing the boat completely.

2) You manage to rank under something that people actually search for. This means they visit your site.

Why is the second a bad thing? Because the site offers nothing to the end user.

As LNR pointed out, one of the factors behind search engine ranking is incoming relevant links. And the only sure way to get incoming relevant links is to give people something worth linking to. This means good content, consistent site navigation (which you seem to have accomplished), a decent layout, etc.

You're making a TON of mistakes right off the top in this regard, and before you even think about SEO, you need to address them:

1) Sound embedded in pages (and in the case of the opening page, popup window) without any warning or ability to turn it on and off. NEVER screw with someone's sound card unless they know it's coming (which in this case, they don't).

2) Popups. Bad mojo. Very bad. Especially without warning.

3) IFrames. The only reason to include content in another frame is if the content links to an external website and you want to maintain layout structure. This is at least understandable.

However, this technique also comes with a usability caveat in that an additional scrollbar is created. This bugs the crap out of most people...why, I don't know, but it does. So use it with extreme caution.

If you must use a scrolling internal area, use a scrolling div with predefined width and height boundaries thanks to the magic of CSS.
Code:
<div style="width:  780px;  height:  300px;  overflow:  auto;">
The overflow property creates the scrollbar(s) as necessary.

4) Your width: it's 887 pixels wide, which is a problem for users at 800x600 (of which quite a few still exist.)

5) With the exception of your phone numbers, your font size isn't adjustable in IE.

6) The menu itself could be coded using CSS without needing to resort to Xara Menu. LNR has a link or two in that regard...I can't find mine.

7) The two "welcome" pages in the Home submenu look exactly the same.

8) I somehow ended up on a site with an IP address. Where's the domain name?

9) The menu changes colour for some reason. It was blue, then went purple. Why?

Your problem is that you're trying to be "creative" without any regard for what the end user will want. You can be creative, but keep in mind other people will try and use the site. Right now, your site is lacking that way.
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Old 09-24-2006, 07:58 PM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Thanks Adam for taking time to leave your critic with such detailed explanation.

I know many will benefit from reading your valid critic just as I did.

The site of mine is for two schools, one for elementary and the other for high school. Due to limited budget the school has, I created two sets of menus differentiating with two colors.

I have read in the past a few forum debates on automatic sounds at the time of page opening vs. giving an option to users, etc.. Thus I had adviced the board member, who challenged me for the task, about the possible negative effects of automatic audio. Thus, I let the sound starts low and users to have an option to close. It was the board member's decision to provide the sound effect at the opening the page against my advice, so all I can do now is to show some of your comments to him to reconsider.

I value your advice on frame width. I will definately change the width. The use of the iframe is to imitate the recent trend of flash web templates, of which design usually keeps the display within a screen size maintaining menu choices and logos on top of the screen. I prefer that design over many web design where the page keeps scrolling up or down moving the menus and logos along with the page beyond the screen just as your webpages are, which to me look like old way of design (may be professional looking to some but not with current trend - just my opnion by the way.)

Once again thanks for your feedback! I appreciated!

Last edited by Richard Yim; 09-24-2006 at 08:36 PM..
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:27 AM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Cool beans.

The one thing you're going to have to watch, though, is "I prefer". What you prefer, what I prefer, what anyone else on this board prefers really doesn't matter all that much. And "recent trends" don't really matter much either...that's an invitation to trouble. (Anyone here remember doing the Macarena or the Sprinkler?)

The only thing that matters is what they prefer (they being the people that use the site). And they usually prefer one scrollbar. It might work for you...I've seen uglier, more ridiculous things work online (I'm even guilty of building a few myself). But be prepared to check your pride on that issue.
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Old 09-25-2006, 04:15 PM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Anyone here remember doing the Macarena
I can still do the Macarena
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Old 09-25-2006, 04:45 PM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Then you are a twisted, twisted woman.
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:28 PM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Thanks again Adam for sharing your philosophy of going with "they".

I do agree with your point of going with "they", for ultimately it is "they" who will decide which format lives and which format dies. I wonder if you guys are old enough to remember the debate between betamax and VHS tape format when video technology was new then.

I went with VHS format for I saw "they" preferred VHS even though technically it was somewhat inferior to Betamax, which my brother in law so proudly owned. His was discard many many years ago, I can still find VHS format tapes to use on my VHS machine.

As I surf upon the website world, more and more I came to believe "they" will opt flash design making the format you like for now a thing of passe.

Forgive me if my comment rubbed against your pride.
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:38 AM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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In my opinion Richard, Flash was trendy a couple years ago. now, it's annoying.

Iframes can keep a website to a certain width. However, so can tables, and they're less annoying. You don't have to set a table width to =100%, but rather 800px.

I would suggest that. Everyone who visits your website and critiques it, is a "they" as I guess you would like to call them. They are visitors for the moment. Iframes usually look bad, (consider killing the border if anything) and if you do consider a S.E. at all, SE's hate frames.. period.
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:44 AM Re: My site shows up many pages behind in google search... can someone tell me why?
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Thanks Michael for your critic, which I believe to be very valid.

I should not take credit for coining the term "they". It is Adam who is "so cool 'that' it hurts" that used first the term "they" by the way.

The main reasons why I resorted to iframe is simply because I like to avail menus (navigational tools) right there on top of a screen always along with logos for "they" to see. Aren't they calling such easy to navigate usages "user frienly"? Oh another reason is to keep all the info to be within a screen. Thus I have been resizing my pages to 800x600 as Crush123 suggested.

I will be removing iframe as soon as I learn a solution to replace it achieving the same goals for as Adam wrote too many scrolling bars are not good either.

Again thanks Michael for your "OPINION". If flash design is annoying as you shared, why they are selling like hot cakes over internet, and every day I see new flash sites popping up as new cool sites?

I hope no one here gets offended by my praises for flash designs with menus and logos staying on top page (or at the bottom within a screen) and keeping data within a screen so that less & less scrolling be needed, for I'm just trying to get some persuasive answers that will help change my maybe stubborn perception.

Have a nice day, Michael. I know you meant to help me.
BTW, Michael, I like most of the flash designs you sell on your websites. You produced pretty cool pages with very well done superb graphics.

Last edited by Richard Yim; 09-26-2006 at 12:22 PM..
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